SliTaz Forum

Base and JustX flavors have a limited use

(9 posts) (3 voices)

• Started 6 years ago by Ceel
• Latest reply from Aleksej
• This topic is not a support question

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1. 

   Ceel
   

   offline

   Administrator

   Hi all,

   1. Base and JustX don't allow to use Wi-Fi
      Kernel modules linux-crypto and linux-wireless and packages libcrypto, libssl, libnl, expat, xorg-libXau, xorg-libXdmcp, libxcb, xorg-libX11, xorg-libICE, xorg-libSM, dbus, pcsc-lite, wpa_supplicant and wireless_tools (hope I didn't forget anyone) are missing.
      This makes impossible to implement wifi from a live Base/JustX.
   2. No access to NTFS partitions
      Because ntfs-3g package is not installed on this 2 flavors.
      This is easier to solve, if you have access to the internet of course ;-)

   Is it a voluntary choice of SliTaz?
   Yet it doesn't take more place in the 4in1 ISO if these packages were in rootfs4.gz.

   Posted 6 years ago #
2. 

   Aleksej
   

   offline

   Coder-hobbyist

   Hi Ceel,

   Next the some spontaneous thoughts (caused by this hot evening and glass of the cool beer).

   I think too that we should review the flavors contents. What we have now?

   • base
   • justx
   • gtkonly
   • core

   Entire idea of 4-in-1 russian dolls is great. And while I see no sense in flavors other than smallest base and biggest core, some SliTaz users here, on the forum, claims that core flavor is not need, is overhead, and other words... That SliTaz-3 was the best, while SliTaz-4 was break the TAZ idea and can not calls SliTaz at all.

   Hmm, some people use gtkonly. Well... But did anyone use justx? It is doubtful, IMHO.
   Justx is useful only as basis for other custom flavors.

   To continue, I think we should review use-cases for the flavors.

   base.
   The flavor for the SliTaz server-side infrastructure — for the servers that serves slitaz.org, hg.slitaz.org, cook.slitaz.org... I doubt they need Wi-Fi or NTFS at all.

   justx.
   Unusable in the current conditions. May be used as base for other flavors that not use GTK. Please correct me.

   gtkonly.
   Semi-unusable reduced version of the core flavor. It missed any web-browser, so our shiny TazPanel not work here, and we should write other GUIs (Yad-based) for configuring the system. IMHO it's the overhead. Please correct me again.

   core.
   May be it was good balanced choice in SliTaz-4 times, but it has some pitfalls now.
   To be more user-friendly we should add here more drivers. But then ISO size will grow significantly, and the small ISO size is the dead end, alas.

   For example, on the some hardware (you may find it here on the old topics) we need some specific video-card drivers to work. It just not works with the default (VESA-based?) video driver. And it will be good to add different video-drivers to ISO.

   At least we provide terminal-based tool to install different video-drivers. It is good, but seems terminal-session not works on that equipment too. And, more to say, we need to rise internet (in most cases, Wi-Fi) as you rightly remarked in the terminal session. For example, my Wi-Fi card needs additional firmware (b43) that not exists even in form of packages. SliTaz is Linux distro for geeks exclusively, isn't is looks like?

   So, as you can see, I have no solution.

   In addition, SliTaz is claimed to be Linux distro for old hardware. Seems like (unreleased) SliTaz-5 will satisfy this claim. I working on updating the packages to the actual versions, and while it also is light-as-it-can-be, it will not be intended to use with the old hardware...

   Posted 6 years ago #
3. 

   Ceel
   

   offline

   Administrator

   Hi Aleksej,

   Lucky man! 19° today and only 18° tomorrow, stormy weather :( Don't need a cool beer but rather a hot coffee.

   I see no sense in flavors other than smallest base and biggest core

   I agree with this point of view but it is not really impartial: I only use these 2 flavors :)
   I

   • use base as a tool;
   • used justX a few when I was learning how to use SliTaz Pizza;
   • never use gtk-only because it hasn't no interest for what I do;
   • and use Core for a regular use.

   So you're probably right when you say "I think we should review use-cases for the flavors" but I'm not a reference...

   Entire idea of 4-in-1 russian dolls is great.

   Maybe but I think 4-in-1 should be a flavor and Core the stable release. This would avoid problems with installers like UNetBootin or others and would be more accessible and understandable for newcomers to Linux. But here too, it's only my opinion and don't worry, I won't leave SliTaz if this doesn't change :)

   SliTaz-3 was the best, while SliTaz-4 was break the TAZ idea

   I don't share entirely this: SliTaz 2 was the true spirit of SliTaz, SliTaz 3 brought Xorg (even if it never ran on my work computer... That's live) and SliTaz 4 brought "officialy" the russian dolls (they already existed with SliTaz 3 but as a flavor). Does SliTaz 4 break the TAZ idea? I wouldn't say this.

   SliTaz is claimed to be Linux distro for old hardware .../... I working on updating the packages to the actual versions, and while it also is light-as-it-can-be, it will not be intended to use with the old hardware...

   Well, on this point I think we have to do the difference between "old hardware" and "really too old hardware".
   I use old computers but they are all at least pentium 4 (that is already too old, I really have to think about changing). Who would want to install Linux on a 386 or 486?
   To access to the entire RAM of my work computer I've had to active the PAE so change from i486 to i686 arch (if my memory serves me well). This ISO works perfectly well but... when a package of SliTaz's repository need to install a module (as virtualbox-ose pkg) some error messages are displayed at installation because the module is not compiled with the "good" architecture and of course it doesn't work; think to this for SliTaz Next ;-)

   Why I needed to mount a NTFS partition and have the Wi-Fi working?
   Because, as you, I need a driver for my Wi-Fi card that mojo compiled for me (thank's again mojo! I didn't imagine it would serve me as much) and this driver is stored on a NTFS disk... (I can't change this) and for a week I can connect to the internet only via a modem 4G with Wi-Fi.
   As I always have a 4-in-1 ISO with me, I started to create a new ISO with http://pizza.slitaz.org/
   So finally, all is going fine for me :)

   Posted 6 years ago #
4. 

   kultex
   

   offline

   Key Master

   I need justx for my audioservers, where I just show the titels of the songs on the screen. They are running fine in RAM on fujitsu futros with 128 MB Ram - gtk-only for me is not very useful, but maybe it is for somebody useful - so I think we can leave it.

   And I agree with Ceel, that core should be the main iso - it should be possible, that SliTaz works with rufus or others.

   I think we should have 5 main isos to download

   1) small core
   2) small core low ram
   3) big core (with all video drivers, cups, wifi firmwares)
   4) big core low ram
   5) russian dolls

   I think, this would increase SliTAz users....

   and Ceel - Pentium4 must to the recycling - they consume much to much energy. A raspberry can do the same work a P4

   Posted 6 years ago #
5. 

   Aleksej
   

   offline

   Coder-hobbyist

   Hi there,

   I like your activity. Like in old good times...

   Ceel > Lucky man!

   Actually, no :) Too much, like too little - it's bad.
   30-34°C for near 10 days forecast, 17-22° at night.
   My thermometer is now at the sun, and it just went mad, of course. Normally we can work only at night...

   Ceel > I think 4-in-1 should be a flavor and Core the stable release.
   kultex > I agree with Ceel

   Agreed too. Anytime in the past I wanted to try new Rolling ISO I've downloaded Core flavor, extracted ramdisk (rootfs.gz) from it and added few lines in the boot loader. It's easier with the single ramdisk. And yes, sometimes it's the one possible way for some installers.

   Ceel > we have to do the difference between "old hardware" and "really too old hardware".
   Ceel > Who would want to install Linux on a 386 or 486?

   Isn't it the SliTaz mission? :)

   I hope you'll agree with me that we may leave such mission for SliTaz v. 1-5, and move forward with upcoming version. May we switch to i686 in the SliTaz Next? I never even tried this.

   Ceel > Why I needed to mount a NTFS partition

   Oh my... It's really small to add it in: http://cook.slitaz.org/next/ntfs-3g
   Instead we may remove the Beaver (finally) and Cookutils (that anyway useless without the full toolchain), and maybe something also...

   kultex > 3) big core (with all video drivers, cups, wifi firmwares)

   The only we need to invent yet another sexy word like the core for it, and to reconsider the whole packages list for it.

   ---
   PS. And I want to share something interesting with you :)

   My multi-rootfs live USB works well (it even helped me to "kick away" Petya the wiper out from the office desktops), so...

   To use LibreOffice on the Live USB it's possible to consider LibreOffice package file as cpio archive - to extract "fs.cpio.lzma" from it. Then to copy/rename this "fs.cpio.lzma" near the rootfs[1-4].gz files (that are really cpio.lzma archives too) and to add new entry to the menu.lst (isolinux.cfg).

   That's all. All we need is RAM enough.

   Now I think we may to separate some packages also that don't required frequently (installer, partition manages, etc.) into separate "layer".

   Posted 6 years ago #
6. 

   kultex
   

   offline

   Key Master

   I am against changing to 686 - especially non Intel Hardware like Via or Geode CPUs are not fully 686 compatible. They are energy efficiant but Need 586.......

   And I love your idea of another layer - all not often used programs should not be extracted during boot - only when they are needed.

   Posted 6 years ago #
7. 

   Aleksej
   

   offline

   Coder-hobbyist

   Hi there,

   I am against changing to 686 ...

   Valued note. Let it be i486 for a while.

   ---

   It turns that I fooled you in my PS.

   I used handmade cpio.lzma archive with LibreOffice as another layer in the rootfs*.gz sequence. But I was wrong that we can use fs.cpio.lzma extracted from the tazpkg package. It adds extra "/fs" prefix, so executable goes into /fs/use/bin/ instead of /use/bin/, and so on.

   My apologies. Maybe symlink /fs -> / will fix the whole situation, don't know...

   Posted 6 years ago #
8. 

   Ceel
   

   offline

   Administrator

   Hi,

   I am against changing to 686

   Valued note. Let it be i486 for a while.

   Ok, you are more numerous than me... it is democracy ;)

   @ Aleksej,

   You said we should add more drivers to the core ISO; what about to have the possibility to use a touchscreen?

   And kultex is right, we must keep the low ram ISOs.

   Posted 6 years ago #
9. 

   Aleksej
   

   offline

   Coder-hobbyist

   Hi Ceel,

   Ok, you are more numerous than me... it is democracy ;)

   :D
   It's easier to postpone it for later.
   I use Archlinux PKGBUILDS when I get into a blind corner, and I see there only "i686" and "x86_64". But well...

   what about to have the possibility to use a touchscreen?

   linux-input-touchscreen-4.9.30.tazpkg exists: http://cook.slitaz.org/next/linux/
   So nothing prevents it from being included in the image.
   But sorry, I can't release even simpler ISO now.

   Posted 6 years ago #

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