SliTaz Forum

SliTaz next

(49 posts) (15 voices)

• Started 9 years ago by Aleksej
• Latest reply from michaelbischof
• This topic is not a support question

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1. 

   Aleksej
   

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   Coder-hobbyist

   Hi there,

   I want to upgrade toolchain. In fact, what we use now, it has long been out of date.

   Together with this update SliTaz-5.0 is coming to the End-of-Life.
   Here you can ask me: “What? Which SliTaz-5.0?”. Unreleased one.

   We released RC-1 to RC-3, but never released the 5.0.
   Maybe this is due to great responsibility. Maybe it would be desirable to make a perfect release…

   There is nothing perfect.
   While we have not released, we can not start the next round of updates, as it was before.
   Major distributions offer update once or twice a year.
   We also could produce releases twice a year, calling them, for example, SliTaz-2016-5 and SliTaz-2016-11 or something like that. When it's time to release, we just save current Rolling with the release name. And then, maybe once a two years, or once a year to update the entire base…

   As a result, today we stopped with the old toolchain in Rolling Flavor, and with ancient — in the stable version. What does it take to release 5.0? We can just call our recent build the name 5.0.

   But today I wanted to talk not about the release. Regardless of whether or not to release, the need to update overdue and the question is relevant. (I know that some old packages will stop to compile with the update. Therefore, the release still needs to be done to keep all the packages available in the work, although in the old state.)

   After the upgrade, we will get access to many interesting programs, such as, for example, LXQt, based on Qt5.

   * * *

   So, I informed you of my intention. How do I do — is another matter :)

   Unfortunately, I never had to deal with the updating of the basic packages. I had enough of what has already been done by others. I do not have any experience in this.

   When I could not “just” update packages, I began to look closely to the LFS. While I was not able to go far. I updated Binutils without problems. But I'm stuck on the compiling of GCC.

   I try to update SliTaz receipts in accordance with the steps outlined in LFS. Just want to say the following. Receipts “extension” for cross-compilation had to throw. It is difficult to maintain the usual receipts with more updates. It is doubly difficult to maintain the “double” receipts for regular compilation and cross compilation. Unable to maintain cross-compilation, because I've not addressed.

   I know that in order to make excellent packages a single LFS is not enough, need tips from other places…

   I will be glad of any help in updating the base system. And I will be very happy when we all come together — old and new SliTaz developers! United with one interesting case…

   Posted 9 years ago #
2. 

   oui
   

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   Hi Aleksej,
   It is legitim as you did explain it now. But. please, give as a complete copy (big iso binaries + big iso sources) of the last stage of the never published (::) SliTaz 5.0 so user have developed her particular environment can continue stand alone at home ;-) . Thank you for your announce and thank you for that taking in consideration for user having to continue a certain time her way as beginned. And good luck for SliTaz 6.0 (I see that my wish to make it self compiled and self compiling is not for 6.0 but perhaps better to obtain with a new tool chain).
   Kind regards

   Note: it would be good to find all concerning Slitaz chains unter SliTaz-pipapo or Taz-pipapo so that you can find them all ;-) easily invoquing tazpkg -l at an central place in the names list... And a short comment would permit to overview which chains are present and what they does (eventually also which "subcbains" they are containing...)

   Posted 9 years ago #
3. 

   Darjeeling
   

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   Member

   It's been talked about since long, and now it's happening. At last! But I have some questions regarding what's going to happen to 5.0. I have read your text carefully twice and found that you've been rather vague about this.

   - Is 5.0 just going to be dumped and left in its current state?

   - If, for whatever reason an 'official' final release can't be made, won't there be at least some sort of 'internal' final release like e.g. a RC4? After all the work that went into it, I think this is the least one would expect.

   - Why have the two latest rolling releases been 10 MB larger than all the previous ones? They used to be 42 MB, now they are 52 MB.

   - The value of /etc/slitaz-release should be the same across all boot options. Currently it is like this ...

   
   SliTaz core Live   : 5.0
   SliTaz gtkonly Live: cooking
   SliTaz justx Live  : cooking
   

   ... and I think that in a final release they should all be '5.0', so one can use them in scripts without any hassle.

   > How do I do — is another matter :)
   I hope you're happy and you are doing fine! :)

   Posted 9 years ago #
4. 

   Aleksej
   

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   Hi oui,

   I think we don't need the big ISO with all the packages.
   We can "put to a museum" SliTaz-4.0 in the role of SliTaz-Stable, and to release current SliTaz-Rolling under name SliTaz-5.0 and also known as new SliTaz-Stable. So, all the current Rolling packages will be available in the renewed Stable repository. (And SliTaz-4.0 will be the history...)

   What you mean with the "SliTaz-pipapo"? I search it across SliTaz packages, and across the Internet, but found nothing relevant :( Is it just mean "miscellaneous", "tutti frutti", etc.?

   Posted 9 years ago #
5. 

   Aleksej
   

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   Coder-hobbyist

   Hi Darjeeling,

   Yes I was not clear what to do with the SliTaz-5.0.
   I started the topic in the hope that someone was more lucky with the toolchain update, and that he can do it more quickly than me.

   Guys, thank you both for you with SliTaz!
   As we stated it before, “any help is appreciated”.
   Have a nice day! :)

   Posted 9 years ago #
6. 

   kultex
   

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   Key Master

   I agree with "pass 4.0 to the museum and rename current Rolling as Stable 5.0." and start 6.0

   Posted 9 years ago #
7. 

   rerivero
   

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   Member

   I hope this... If SliTaz 5.0 stable could not be, not decay, better times will come ... Maybe it's correct Rolling spend as stable and start again with new toolchain looking at a SliTaz 6.0 on the horizon

   Posted 9 years ago #
8. 

   oui
   

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   Member

   Hi Aleksej

   pipapo is on French a "open place holder" for each possible extension like

   tazx

   here is "x" the pipapo...

   greetings

   Posted 9 years ago #
9. 

   Aleksej
   

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   Coder-hobbyist

   Thank you, oui.

   I think I understand you now. It is something like ”bla-bla-bla“ in the English :)

   Is it looks like about you're asking? --
   http://pkgs.slitaz.org/?package=taz

   Posted 9 years ago #
10. 

    hackdorte
    

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    Member

    @Aleksej : You develop a great job on the Slitaz team. All developers are special. Today the Rolling is too full of fantastic features and functional. I don't see problems in new versions, I prefer stable and functional versions that work with security. Yes, problems may arise, but there is our forum to resolve issues in the future.

    I am very happy with Slitaz Rolling is perfect on my computer with all features running without errors. Congratulations on your work.

    Posted 9 years ago #
11. 

    Aleksej
    

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    Coder-hobbyist

    Leonardo, thank you for kind words.
    I only wanted to note for all of you guys, that my work on the SliTaz is not so big, as you sometimes stated here on the forum. Please, don't make me feel myself uncomfortable.
    Our real great heroes are @Pankso and @Bellard. Just take a look here:
    http://pkgs.slitaz.org/?maintainer=
    and there:
    http://hg.slitaz.org/

    Posted 9 years ago #
12. 

    hackdorte
    

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    Member

    What are the toolchain difficulties at the moment?

    ...

    Please, do not feel uncomfortable. We are all a big seed for the garden of life. "... All developers are special ..." ;)

    Posted 9 years ago #
13. 

    az_ua
    

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    Moderator

    @Aleksej
    > gcc
    "gcc49" package already present in repo to compile C++11 code (such as qt5). I think it will be impossible to rebuild all packages with new gcc, we'll get largest amount of "broken packages" ever, gcc5 is just broken inside.
    > glibc
    Maybe it have to be updated immediately, without any "next" or "toolchain update". Every day more and more precompiled binaries requres newer version.
    kernel
    Since 4.3 it doesn't work with intel-video and a lot of other regressions.
    glib
    It's not part of toochain, but I just have to note, that freezing repos with dev-version of glib is bad idea.

    @Darjeeling
    > Why have the two latest rolling releases been 10 MB larger than all the previous ones?
    Gstreamer is now installed by default - allows for example youtube in tazweb without flash. I don't know why it was added to core.

    Posted 9 years ago #
14. 

    Aleksej
    

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    Coder-hobbyist

    2 az_ua

    > gcc
    "gcc49" package already present in repo to compile C++11 code (such as qt5).

    It is just great.

    I think it will be impossible to rebuild all packages with new gcc, we'll get largest amount of "broken packages" ever

    I know it.

    Old packages like "notecase", unmaintained too years ago, back in the 2008, needs to be patched again and again up to you just give up, because you are not an author of that piece of code. I doubt we can save all the packages during system update.

    gcc5 is just broken inside.

    Pretty bold statement. However, I'm not expert.
    LFS and BLFS are the books with the ready-to-use receipts how to prepare modern Linux system.
    And they are based on the GCC-5.2. I doubt that they could achieve this success by using a broken compiler.

    On the other hand, GCC — it's just a compiler. It compiles the code.
    If it will be sufficient to use the existing compiler, so let's try to use it.

    I am confused by only one thing.
    I think that some of the packages described in the LFS/BLFS book require patching, also described in the book. Using a different compiler, we can not just follow the described instructions and will not be able to use the proposed patches. We have to go our own way. I am afraid that it may take a very long time: searching the internet, patching... We have very humble human resources to deal with this.

    > glibc
    Maybe it have to be updated immediately, without any "next" or "toolchain update". Every day more and more precompiled binaries requres newer version.

    Heh :)
    Glibc IS part of toolchain. Updating the part of toolchain IS updating toolchain.
    Note, EVERY, literally every package, that contains executable binary or shared library is depends on Glibc. So, we need to rebuild them all. Will it be possible to “save” all the packages after the upgrade Glibc?

    What is your opinion about the Glibc version 2.22?
    If I understand correctly it is enough to update our Glibc-2.14.1 to Glibc-2.15 for modern applications such as Maxthon web browser. But still, LFS uses Glibc-2.22, and I see no reasons to not follow them.

    kernel
    Since 4.3 it doesn't work with intel-video and a lot of other regressions.

    We can stick with the current used Linux Kernel 3.2. It is LTS and will be supported until to April 2017.

    glib
    It's not part of toochain, but I just have to note, that freezing repos with dev-version of glib is bad idea.

    And your solution?
    I remember to update Glib is completely painless, we can move on to a newer or older non-dev-version of Glib. To which one?

    Posted 9 years ago #
15. 

    Darjeeling
    

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    @az_ua
    > Gstreamer is now installed by default
    I hadn't noticed it. Thanks for your reply.

    Posted 9 years ago #

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