it'd be good to have some frugal-install issues solved, like allowing rootfs.gz files larger than 500MB.
Wishlist for SliTaz 5 (final)
(35 posts) (13 voices)- Started 10 years ago by Anonymous
- Latest reply from kubepc
- This topic is not a support question
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DarkShroom
offlineMemberi have not yet found a wish except more self documentation maybe?
this is the most epic linux i have found, but it's possibly little stuff like some UI thing that turns on and off the settings in inetd.conf to create an ftp server, i think this thing about this distro is it is leet and never compromises, but anyone should be able to use it
otherwise don't change it :)
Posted 10 years ago # -
Anonymous
offlineUnregistered:)) "more self documentation" ? puppy! hahaha :))
... sorry couldnt resist... ;)Posted 10 years ago # -
Anonymous
offlineUnregisteredThere's one extra thing that might best be done as well: looking into BusyBox.
SliTaz has just implemented the entire BusyBox, but I think that there are too much commands/tools in BusyBox: see http://www.busybox.net/downloads/BusyBox.html#commands
For example, there's the dpkg and the rpm command in there, and I heard that installing such packages would break slitaz (which uses tazpkg). dpkg could be handy still for downloading say debian packages after which they can be converted to tazpkg packages, but then again most debian packages you'll need would probably be downloadable from the main project sites anyway, and you could always still use a different PC (with debian on it) to download such packages and then simply transfer (via ethernet or external drive). There are much other commands that can be scrapped in BusyBox as well I believe; which are not used in SliTaz currently and/or can be avoided (for example, in stead of rmdir, one could use the rm command with the -r option. To do all this, I was thinking of a script making BusyBox into "BusyBox light". Perhaps that some commands can also be added, such as the locate command and the rename command (see http://www.tecmint.com/rename-multiple-files-in-linux/ ) Also, I was thinking that BusyBox's init and mdev could immediately be used to replace systemd, as proposed by Trixar_za (see http://forum.slitaz.org/topic/buildroot-slitaz )Lastly, I was thinking that our current slitaz setup, which has both tty and pseudoterminals is overkill. In the programs text I added at the beginning of this post, I mentioned dropping one terminal -like sakura- in favor of another one (like xterm). Since we also have 7 tty's running however, I'm thinking that even this is still overkill as the tty's can also take over the function of the pseudoterminal, and we also don't even need 7 ttys running anyway (2 would do, one for running in X, the other for the terminal/command-line function). Switching between command line and X would then be done via Ctrl+Alt+F1/F2. If this seems unsuitable for most, the alternative would be to simply remove tty/getty from BusyBox and not use any tty's at all. I guess that it is then also be there's no slim installed neither, so that logging into X can be done by the "startx" command. This way, even if there are graphic driver problems, there is still the option of fixing that via command-line. It also avoids the slim/fat32 problem.
In regards to the taking over of the conky data of crunchbang (all ready mentioned somewhere on this post): it would be best that we also include the used bandwith (this connection) and used bandwith (this month). That's handy for say reducing your bandwith use -for example if you're surfing via a internet connection where there's a limit on the bandwith, or where payment occurs per MB downloaded)
Posted 10 years ago # -
Trixar_za
offlineKey MasterWhy cripple SliTaz for no real gain?
Those package extracting example commands you mentioned is actually what makes tazpkg's convert works. Busybox is already slim as you're going to get. Stripping out commands will save you kilobyte values in the single digits for every couple of commands while the user loses out on scripts and programs that needed them (a good example would be Sakis3g).
SliTaz is already using init for boot and I don't think mdev is really useful beyond experimentation. Dropping udev just comes with really big hits. Both with software (like usb_modeswitch) and drivers (intel) that needs it to work and the loss of support for 95% of laptops, tablets and netbooks. So it's really not worth the couple of megabytes we save.
Those tty doesn't really take up any resources and it fills the spaces until you get to the 7th one - which is where xorg is. So reducing it to two would leave you with nothing at F3 to F6, with the removal of the 7th one breaking xorg.
I still think the startx recommendation is needlessly complicated and born from your misunderstanding of an SliTaz issue. It's not slim that breaks the booting on fat32. It's how the filesystem is compressed on the iso and how the kernel is compiled. It's aimed and made for ext2 (or better). Using any other filesystem breaks the expectation of the compressed filesystem, which makes it's applications freak out in the process. You just see slim fail, but it's a deeper level of breaking - xorg and the kernel is broken or in the process of breaking in that instance. All because you don't match the expected filesystem. Your purposed fix won't change that. However if the expected filesystem is changed at the kernel compilation and iso compression time, then maybe fat32 can be used (actually, you'll ONLY be able to use fat).
Posted 10 years ago # -
devl547
offline~ # cook my_life>SliTaz is already using init for boot
Well, it can be improved a little)
> Dropping udev just comes with really big hits
Works with no problem, actually. The issue is to configure it properly.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Trixar_za
offlineKey MasterYes, but it comes with it's own host of problems - as outlined here: https://github.com/slashbeast/mdev-like-a-boss
We'll lose evdev which will force the addition of mouse drivers especially if you want to use a touchpad. There's also several applications like chrome/chromium that will just refuse to work without libudev and lsusb will lose the ability to show device names. The only way around it is to actually include or create a udev that's just an inactive library - possibly stripped down too. Another loss would be auto-mounting through udisks (like with XFCE), but this can also be worked around using pmount and some clever mdev conf hacking.
Honestly, it was just way too much effort for me the first time around which is why I never bothered with it beyond basic testing.
Posted 10 years ago # -
devl547
offline~ # cook my_life>Yes, but it comes with it's own host of problems
Sure. There's no silver bullet.
Guys, when we gonna start updating core packages (gcc, glibc, kernel)?
Posted 10 years ago # -
willbuild
offlineMemberIn my opinion, as SliTaz is one of the most smart distros, it continue to contains to much redundancy!
e3, nano, beaver, leafpad... why? vi is a must in all distros or link to a compatible editor for vi. as vim is operable as well as console as as xwindow application, and compatible with the key mode of xombrero (highly compatible with TazWEB a frontend of the same browser engine and, very important, secure! I did test the actual version in SliTaz: marvellous! Fast and complete comfort of other high performance browsers...) I would give logicaly the preference to only one, vim (vim is one editor with a great sortiment of plugins and is able to open and include text modules recorded as external files into texts, the decisive step to make professionell text processing out text modules!) and install in the console mode «SliTaz base» only vi! it is easy in SliTaz to add what you wish else, nano, geany or what you can prefer!
SliTaz did have other preferences being more important in the past like retawq, rhapsody, clex, mplayer and firefox, and doesn't pre install that any more! why also a lot of not needing apps making it more fat as it would be the case according more attention to redundancy?
I see that SliTaz 5.0 seems to be about ready!
I would thing about what SliTaz 6.0 can eventually be after that! I would wish a distro prepared to compile itself automatic through a (set of) script(s), and perhaps a «compile panel» as front end: The daily build would be only the result of that processing...
Why? SliTaz is one of the smallest distros. Compile an elephantic distro is possible, distributors do it! But (the most) private persons can only do that in limited size and I see SliTaz as the predestined for it as it is so smart and so small and did offer in version 4., 3. etc. the different steps for it as «SliTaz base», etc.
This will say: The tools would have to be optimal yet in SliTaz Version 5.0 as a good platform to do more.
Kind regards
Posted 10 years ago # -
Trixar_za
offlineKey MasterSome preferential applications is required. I prefer nano over vi (which is incidentally provided by BusyBox), but I would admit that inclusion of pico is a bit redundant. Geany is my favorite graphical editor, but it might not be as easy for people to use like a stripped down editor like leafpad or a simplified code editor like beaver. The thing is you can't expect a beginner to know (or even like) vi's commands. Some level of redundancy in editors help ease the transition for people new to SliTaz or micro-distros in general.
I would agree that the inclusion of some applications would be good while reducing the ones we don't need. Personally, I think we should include mplayer, deadbeef, document editor (like abiword), a small web browser (not Midori) and a simple IRC client (not rhapsody) to the mix. I would like it to be slim, but functional. Somewhere between stripped down to the bare minimum like a base version and Puppy's insane 'one application that does one thing good' philosophy that translates into 3 apps that does the exact same thing, but in different ways.
Xombrero looks interesting though. Does it use a similar switching scheme to irssi or weechat?
devl547: I really should get my ass back on SliTaz and helping out with the updates.
Posted 10 years ago # -
willbuild
offlineMemberAs as you I have my prefered applications (I have the same opinion as you about vi / vim ; but, like links / links2, vim is the only one console mode editor delivered as well for console mode and for graphical use. and it is able to manage insertion of text fragments opening more texts files at writing time - more it also can be used in scripts... ) so that I never did use the «flavors» of SliTaz, don't know what is it and how it operates,
But I can imagine well that a flavor for newbies (as Slitaz uses a cooking language, a «newbies big mac» music or «newbies big mac» video or «newbies big mac» graphical hobbies or «newbies big mac» home office and music would help to give newbies coming directly from windows a reasonable comfort. The question is more exactly the same as for me: how to make the «SliTaz flavors world» attractive for newbies? A step by step tutorial? A short youtube video? A «SliTaz panel» sheet showing how to continue after installing the base to install hitting 3 times to install such one «newbies big mac» pipapo?
This would also generally revalorise the «SliTaz flavors world», probably a specificity of SliTaz!
As I was engineer, I did use a long time of my life OpenOffice at works in WINDOWS (because OpenOffice can read and process the autoCAD format! In big company don't using autoCAD but for ex. DEC software being in use before Windows came, autoCAD did never be really accepted!). Why would I change if I work in Linux and return to cribble office solutions if OpenOffice is as LibreOffice without restrictions available? Ok, perhaps a reduced OO like OO4Kid's (and small home office like OO4Kid's)...
Posted 10 years ago # -
Anonymous
offlineUnregisteredTrixar_za:
regarding init and mdev: if BusyBox init is allready used, than that seems all ready OK, using mdev wouldn’t improve things as you clarified, so that’s not needed.regarding the tty’s: even if they don’t take up (much) resources, it’s still best that more simplification is integrated to slitaz, so that users don’t need to learn about things that are on slitaz but which no one uses, and which can even create problems and security risks. For example, if one has (graphics) problems on slitaz, it sometimes reverts to the tty1 login screen, and unfamiliar users will be desoriented. By removing tty or using it more effectively -using only 2 ttys- (and adding more documentation) such issues can be avoided. the idea would be to then move X to the first or second tty btw, not break/remove it (as it’s currently on the 7th). I also really like the idea of an OS that is “just enough” and of which everything is actually used by the user, and I think I’ll probably not be the only one.
Willbuild:
I think we’re getting off-topic here; everyone will probably have their own favorite programs and some people need more or different programs than others. If you install slitaz frugally, this isn’t an issue; it only gets annoying if you’re using slitaz from CD, and need to download and install the same programs after every new boot. I once tried making an own slitaz with tazusb, but that failed and seems to be too complicated for most. The flavors you mention offer too little variety on the other hand and truthfully, no amount of flavors can be made to suit everyone (as mentioned above). So that can be dismissed as well. So, what does work: the scripting option. Scripts can be made to suit everyone, as everyone is able to modify them and add programs, ... Also, with minimal changes, they can often be used for other linux distro’s as well (ie changing tazpkg commands with dpkg commands, ...) However, when booting from cd, one still needs to execute these scripts with every new boot (and use bandwith for downloading), so that’s still annoying. The solution here would be to make a the slitaz cd iso’s very basic (not having much or any programs at all, and also being a non-many-in-1-flavors iso) and simply have the user install slitaz to the hard drive (frugal install). Then, using the scripts mentioned above, he can quickly install everything he likes (for example useful with slitaz linux reinstalls, or moving to new slitaz versions). New users obviously still need to figure out what programs they prefer to use so would have little benefit of the scripts at first.Posted 10 years ago # -
Genesis
offlineMemberI was surfing and reading the Slitaz Doc, clicked at "Recommended Software Packages" page expecting to see a list of nice packs to install and I was redirected to this page.
Where are the recommendations of packs that are already in Slitaz repositories? :PMy English is not soo good, but I read some posts.
BrianPerry, TazUsb is not so dificult to use. I installed Slitaz at my 8GB usb flash drive in just 5 minutes.I agree that including Abiword and mplayer at Slitaz ISO could be a nice idea.
Posted 10 years ago # -
willbuild
offlineMemberHi Genesis
If you visit:
http://mirror.switch.ch/ftp/mirror/slitaz/iso/ you will see that all major versions of SliTaz continue to stay online including all the stuff
for ex. http://mirror.switch.ch/ftp/mirror/slitaz/iso/1.0/ offers the SliTaz iso vers. 0.1 and all packages in a second iso packages.iso. If you would test that old SliTaz, you would see that SliTaz did have markant preferences as SliTaz were delivered with a complete environment, somewhat between BASIC linux and Puppy linux.
all distros did become very fatter in the same time but SliTaz did avoid to become so fat as some other distro. to do that, divers component not required by all users did be removed in the next versions. as all SliTaz iso's are available, you can follow that tendence step by step if the question interest you really...
usb is a MUST for only a few systems having no hard disk...
for the community of ecologists usb as well as CD's are a catastrophal thing: tons of USB sticks pour into the trash after each falling of prices as parallel the need of more memory for bigger applications is going up. New system like micro cards are not really optimized to serve the user: black, you can write nothing on it. If you havwe 10 micro cards you loose the fast access to her contents! the only way to are certain is to mount and to unmount and we all know that it is not really optimized in linux itself ;-) ...
and tons of CDs were used only a time in the past: burned to install the new SliTaz / Ubuntu / Debian and they go directly into the trash... or not but in all case they will not be used any more and it is the same.it is not environmentally friendly at all to promote each one of both!
I use book PC's (a bit bigger as a barebone) and laptop but I have a big hard disk on them all to avoid to have to produce such garbage...
each old CD (excepted the extremely early ones) of SliTaz can install the most actual wished version of SliTaz using the Web installation. a floppy disk loader exists (and is independant from the version of SliTaz) as well as a extremly small img / iso to do that: you never need really an other tool but can opt for such ones if...
...you prefer!
SliTaz is not a distro like Debian, Ubuntu, etc. where you must burn a CD for only one time or buy an USB stick, if you never use such one, that you will never use again next year because it as only 64 MB, or 128 MB, or 256 MB or 524 MB or ... What, forget all that, we are now using sticks with 64 GB! And? Tomorrow 64 GB will appear exactly so small as 5 .. 10 year back 64 MB (::) ! and not all hardware (and software depending of the hardware) can manage them...
Kind regards
Posted 10 years ago #
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