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Darjeeling: Yeah... It should give you a pretty good idea of what kind of people we are that we choose to argue rather than remove posts that we don't like. So be constructive by making suggestions rather than just complaining. And no, saying something is shit isn't making a suggestion because any idiot can do that. You seem confused about that.
Christophe: A proper networking script that controls the wifi, ethernet and dialup configuration and detection through network.sh - It's way too messy changing the conf each time we want to test it and our current networking interface kind of sucks.
Everybody else: I like the idea of including better drivers, but SliTaz as core should stay simple without extras beyond the essentials - drivers, editors, viewers and maybe codecs with players. The user should be able to choose what else they need. We can make a more complete flavour and integrate some minimizing script to purge unneeded drivers and software in all flavours. We should also make it an option to easily download the most common flavours. I do think we should make core our default download and make the 4 in 1 just another download option.
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Darjeeling,
I had to use a Google translator to understand what you're saying.
Okay, I'll answer, this time without jumping through logical reasoning, not missing the points that (at least to me) seem to be obvious. Trying to make my message compact, it turned out that I had made it loud ugly words?
So, let me quote your message for which I responded.
# Darjeeling:
It's hard to believe all of this happened to please a small crowd of conformists, fanboys and ex-Ubuntu users who never understood or cared much for core values such as "Simple, Small and Lightweight".
I'm not saying whether these words "ugly little rant" or not, I'm just doing the following conclusions. You think that's:
[*]You know exactly what is "Simple, Small and Lightweight"
[*]SliTaz developers do not know this and do not want to know
[*]Developers are not engaged in creative work, and do not put their soul and their free time in the development of SliTaz
[*]Instead, the developers have gone on about the worst personalities
[*]Unlike SliTaz developers, you are the one you know exactly how it should be
Have I succeeded to "read between the lines" the thoughts with which it was said quoted?
I think that the developers are very hurt to read such words. Now regarding the TazPanel.
Last page of TazPanel short log — the very first commits from Christophe Lincoln AKA Pankso: http://hg.slitaz.org/tazpanel/shortlog/b9f87bfa0d75
Can a person with such selflessness going on about "a small crowd of conformists, fanboys and ex-Ubuntu users"? Or a person conceived and implemented the new wonderful tool?
# pankso:
TazPanel is one of our great and new important projects that change the way users and administrators administer there SliTaz system
# pankso:
TazPanel is my current BIG project, in time it will replace all SliTaz
boxes (except mainly subox) such as Tazpkgbox, mountbox, netbox or
tazlitobox. In short one will be able to do all system mangement and
settings from TazPanel.
I think that no one will go back. This is the directions of development of the distribution. Therefore, your words, Darjeeling, seem not only offensive, but also inappropriate. They will not change anything.
Pankso, though for a long time there was not announced, still continues to be the principal designer of SliTaz. SliTaz — it's his baby. We are — other developers — can not hurt his child. We have to maintain it and develop it. I will say one thing. I moved from 3.0 to 4.0 just because of that to test and see what the TazPanel is. And since then, I have never regretted it.
But if you, Darjeeling, do not agree in which direction SliTaz developed, and thus know exactly in which direction it should move…
If you really want to, but the developers for anything in life would not be breaking new tools and go back to the old one…
I think there is only one way — to fork it and to make your own SliTaz (to fork it).
This happens very often. Here are some examples that quickly come to mind:
[*]Nano editor is a fork of Pico
[*]Yad is a fork of Zenity
[*]Inkscape is a fork of Sodipodi
[*]MariaDB is a fork of MySQL
[*]LibreOffice is a fork of OpenOffice.org
[*]Mageia Linux is a fork of Mandriva Linux
Even if you are not a developer, but with enough determination and obstinacy, you can find like-minded people who will further develop the ideas that were laid down in 3.0 and were thrown from 4.0. Hopefully now I have explained my point of view.
PS: By the way, please show me your posts are written in early TazPanel. In which you said TazPanel is bad and should not go away from the good old tools. A quick search on the forum, on the SCN and Mailing List has not given me anything.
PPS: Forking of SliTaz is not an empty sound. Here are some examples, perhaps I can not call forks in the full sense of the word, but it is certain that this change SliTaz the way need to the developers of these examples:
[*]SliTazRu 4.0 (Russian) just for fun
[*]OLA: An open framework for DMX lighting control based on SliTaz
[*]Aircrack-ng based on SliTaz
[*]screenshot of Comodo Rescue Disk — based on SliTaz
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Darjeeling,
Why do you find it so hard to respond to other people's concerns, opinions, ideas or suggestions in a civilized manner?
I do not respond your bug reports because I have nothing to say. I do not know how to solve these problems. So I think I better shut up. I think that I should not be writing in every forum topic that here I can not help.
Trixar_za,
As part of a script that will delete all unnecessary, I can write a script that will throw out the unnecessary locale information. Not only applications messages, but also from other places.
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I do not like to argue and debate (although sometimes compelled).
I love to develop. Walk a few days and think about solving a problem. And when the solution is already in my head, move it to a lines of script. I guess I'm staying with SliTaz because there are still many unsolved problems. I am not interested merely use the system. I decide questions to the best of my knowledge.
Still, let's go back to the idea of moulefrite.
moulefrite,
Is your "configurator" similar to this? http://build.porteus.org/
The link — online build system of Porteus distro. I do not know what this distro is, have not tried it, not downloaded it.
But I liked the fact that there is a well-defined set of parameters after setting which distro gets to the user.
Despite the "tablet" page style, despite the fact that we do not have 64-bit version and office package and proprietary video drivers, etc. How do you like the idea? After all, need something to make a start, and the details from no one comes.
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I like it. This is certainly a place where to begin with.
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That's kind of funny
I had recommended a week ago to take a look at porteus.
( 2nd post on page 2)
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Yes, a little funny 
But you not provided direct link. And the differences in the context and use cases.
And I was too lazy to find the things on the net, when I know that online iso builder (like Pizza) is only for Advanced Users (oh, not for me).
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Aleksej,
Yep, that's good exemple! Similar to Slitaz pizza (the problem with this one is , if I want Firefox, I must know already all dependecies to include as well, so not appropriate for noobs)
After some meditation,
I was thinking of
+ a ISO with a selection a software for the 99% everday needs :
Pcmanfm + Firefox + Flash + Mplayer + Full Hardware support (but have to be stripped out after!)
-->Goal : ISO around 200MB
+ Wizard for language,keyboard,gtk theme, Wifi ESSID, sound level, default screen configuration
+ Wizard for
1° to select some heavy Softs (Offices, Gimp, Blender, Lives...) which will download them
2° full-install them onto USB (no frugal)
3° auto-create tazpkg links from the Slitaz Frugal to this "heavy" install.
-> make rootfs.gz and frugal install on a USB
So one can have a light 200MB but quite complete Slitaz but with some links to the USB to enjoy some extra heavy softs we don't use every day and we don't want to be loaded into RAM!
This could be a good compromise
One last thing :
If one want to focus on noobs, we will have to accept that they are not ready to install Slitaz ,even beside in dual-boot, on HD next to Windows : too complicate and risky :S
Making the flavor described, here above, should be usb-oriented. Fortunatly, loading 200mb is not too much long with usb, nowadays.
@moulefrite
we all love slitaz and I respect what you're fighting for over the last 2 weeks.
remembering how this thread began: "I can give to my sister.."
I think you should try Porteus.Most of what you wish was realized there.
It's newbie/fool-proof.you get a basic system, live-CD or frugal HD-install or
bootable usb-stick
all additional Software, and nvidia/ati-drivers, are packed into "Modules",
which you can activate/deactivate how you like it.so your system is allways
small and fast.
Please forgive me for recommending another distro,but I also use porteus
because there is no CRDA for SliTaz.
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Hi sixofeight,
My first idea was not full developped as it's stupid to Load a full Office suite in RAM.
Look at this
[attachment=26592,1197]
@moulefrite
....it's stupid to Load a full Office suite in RAM....
Yes, but that is what they are NOT doing!!!The Princip of "Modules" is:
you put huge Software like Office, gimp, Browsers etc with all needed
dependancies in a single Container (= modul).This Module you can put anywhere.
It will NOT be loaded at boot (but it could if you want).
If you need Office, you just click that Module and activate it.It's then in your Programms-menue and in ram of course
The Point is that when you don't need Office any longer, you click the Module
again, deactivate it and the whole Office suite disappears (out of menue out
of ram and out of the Filesystem).This is not a Install/deinstall as usual.
If you don't need Office for the current Session, don't activate it.
I recommend you go to porteus.org and download a "standard iso"
(kde or mate/xfce/lxde/razor-qt) burn a live-CD test it and you will see.
I think sooner or later I will get banned here
Hopefully not
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@moulefrite
http://www.porteus.org/info/features.html
http://www.porteus.org/component/content/article/9-tutorials/modules/56-what-are-porteus-modules.html
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The problem I have with modules is that they're stand-alone for portability - which means they contain everything they need to run on their own. The trouble with that is that with similar modules, you get repeats of certain libraries and files which ultimately add more data (and in this case, uses more RAM) than it needs to if it was statically linked like a proper program.
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@Trixar_za
That's right, if a module puts all files/folders only in his own Folder.
But what if a module injects his files/folders into the running Live-Filesystem like
a normal install? Wouldn't a 2nd module notice that some needed files are
already there?
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If memory serves, in Porteus it only does that for common libraries and modules that come with the base install. The uncommon ones will be created for each module and will not be shared between similar modules because it prevents the event that should one module be removed, the others won't suddenly suffer because of it.
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@Trixar_za
Yes, you're right.
The Point of removing...I've overlooked.
( I usually overlook something )
Thanks for the deeper look on it.
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What I do to minimize ram occupied by unnecessary files is:
- download packages with all necessary dependencies
- prepare a text file inluding complete list of them
- use [c]tazpkg install-list[/c] to install the application when I need it
It works very well for me, but I use only frugal usb stick (or rootfz stored on local hdd), so I don't care of removing all those files afterwards - just restart system and that's it.
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@tazpider
This is also my way of doing it.But if a program is really good,
( double checked ),I include it in my Installation and build a new iso.
By doing so I don't have to configure the Preferences again and again.
I have several isos (along with an Info-file about the changes),so I can go back
to an earlier version.
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Yes, but the current problem is :
your have 2 laptops ,
you have a wireless and Ethernet connection,
you have 2 users on each computers,
you have 2 external monitors and
2 keyboards in 2 diffrent language :
2*2*2*2*2 = 32 iso's ! lol x) That's why I recommend a solution where all the user profil should be written from a single file with a grub command at boot time.
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