
Nimrod the Great
(56 posts) (8 voices)-
I have been doing more and more work in nimrod lately and it seems too new of a language. I think we should focus on finishing spk. I would love to write in a more structured language like nimrod, but we need to improve other parts of slitaz before we can make such radical changes. What else is on the plate for 5.0?Posted 12 years ago #
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What if pankso said that way back when he created SliTaz 1.0 or the beta and alphas of that? Why make a new micro linux, why not stick with DSL or Puppy? Why not stick with Ubuntu or Debian or Fedora? Why make a whole new Linux from scratch?
Why? Because he wanted to and it was innovative in itself to create it. Innovation pushes a distribution and community forward, it allows it to grow. What you two are doing is the opposite of innovation. It's reluctance to change. It's down to what developers want compared to the users. Users want fast and small applications. Developers want to be able to use SLOW shell scripts because it's easy to edit WHEN they feel like it, even though they RARELY do so. So here's what I'm going to do: I'm going to carry on regardless of what you, domcox or godane has to say. I will then release a package for it and let the USERS decide between having slow ash scripts and the ~500% performance boosts, even on OLDER machines, the Nimrod code will bring. Wanna make a bet which will win?
Posted 12 years ago # -
Thank you for your support, Brenton!
You make me happy and strengthened me on my way.I must say that enough work for everyone. For those who write on Ash and for those who write on the Nimrod, no matter, he writes frequently or rarely. No need to determine whose contribution was greater, and whose lower. No need to be separated, because in the long run we're doing one thing.
New tools to be written on the Nimrod, using proven, polished and tested algorithms from the original tools written in Ash. By using a completely different language, the implementation of these algorithms will be different. But possibilities offered by the original tools, will be transferred to the new tools. If someone can add a new feature, but only in the Ash-code, the same feature will be carried over to the Nimrod-code. And vice-versa.
Let everyone engaged only what brings him pleasure!
Posted 12 years ago # -
More on a philosophical approach:
Introducing Nimrod to code Slitaz tools is conformism: this is the way Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora and other convoluted distributions are built whatever is the algol-derived language used.
By using self-limiting tools (ash, awk), you allow ordinary users to take control of their system and let them develop their creativity. There are no more developpers on one side and consumers on the other side, but people building together solutions. This is innovation, based on philosophical roots. I agree it's difficult to accept because the idea of self-limiting tools is antithetical to technology (and capitalism).
Posted 12 years ago # -
We can develop both and let the user decide which they want to use.
If we use Nimrod or if we use Ash scripts, the user still needs to learn the language and in Ash scripts' case, the tools like awk and sed. I can also predict with 90% certainty that most users don't care either way.
Any way you try spinning it, you're being deletist rather than inclusionistic about this. Why can't we have both? Why shouldn't the users have the right to decide?
Posted 12 years ago # -
I had good time debating with you.
My conclusion:
I'm an anarchist, and thus anti-elitist, I hate situations in which power is concentrated in the hands of a limited number of people.Do what you want, you are free to do it, its a part of the spirit of a taz.
We'll wait and see what the whole community (why oppose users and devels?) decide.
;)
Posted 12 years ago # -
To take an Anarchist view: It would be up to the user and dev to decide which language they choose to use. Anarchy also leans towards biggest stick wins. Currently Nimrod is the better stick.
Like I told godane earlier, implementation is still far off and we'll have challenges like the integration of po files to deal with.
There is no point in trying to kill Nimrod code just yet.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Hi domcox,
By using self-limiting tools (ash, awk), you allow ordinary users to take control of their system and let them develop their creativity. There are no more developpers on one side and consumers on the other side, but people building together solutions.
Let me introduce myself. I'm ordinary user of SliTaz.
All the code I wrote (and continue to write) for the SliTaz, I wrote only for myself, to make me was more comfortable. I translated the site, some of the documentation and programs into Russian language only to make me personally was more comfortable.
But I just can not afford not to share it with others. I know that any work should be done only once. Why wasting time and energy doing something over and over again? I share my improvements with others, while others share these with me.
I'm glad to see that every day our distro is getting better and better!I like our collaboration, I like our team of professionals. I am very proud that I can make improvements to our distro!
I'm not new to the SliTaz, I'm with him since 3.0. You can find my posts in an old Vanilla forum.
But for all this time I first saw such a open hostility to me and what I do. I do not understand what I'm doing wrong? Why this incomprehensible philosophical twaddle to me?I found out the existence of new to me, interesting programming language. I tried to write pieces of code on it. In my opinion, it turned out great! I shared my joy (and code) to all in this topic. Anyone who wants to — take it, use it! I do not mind, I would be pleased ;)
I shared my joy. And now? Respected community, you see, in what has become this topic?
I'm an anarchist, and thus anti-elitist, I hate situations in which power is concentrated in the hands of a limited number of people.
domcox, why do you hate me?
Or you are afraid me?
What is so special power in my hands?But, enough of empty talk! Instead of it, I better write few lines of wonderful code.
And I will always continue to share my achievements with other people.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Hi all:
I have been following this issue from the start. I admit as Aleksej had never heard of Nimrod, which has nothing wrong, you can always start learning ..
I see that both arguments have their valid reasons, first defended the speed and efficiency of binaries built with nimrod, and on the other hand argue philosophical reasons, where users lose the ability to adjust the system to our needs (ash or awk ), which according to my opinion is not entirely true, as he rightly says Trixar_za nimrod binaries must be accompanied by source code ..
The big question: where will SliTaz?
and this is where I think it would be good for everyone to hear from Pankso -for example-(since this is if I understand rewriting Tazpkg)
I personally believe that everything happens for fear of the unknown and the unknown is not always wrong ..
Greetings to all and keep working for SliTaz, that if a change is good, maybe it should try. -Posted 12 years ago # -
Hi Aleksej and Trixar_za,
I'm just a weird guy who can't resist raising political debates on every small issue. I do not want to hurt someone and I apologize to you if it already happened.
Both of you are thoughful, enthusiastic and passionate about SliTaz, the whole project can only benefit from such commitement. I didn't want to bother you, I just tried, as a lone individual, to express my personal thoughts about Nimrod.
To be clear, I don't want to go through boring Edit-Compile-Test-Debug Cycles anymore. If instead you've used Lua, which is already included in SliTaz, I've said good, I'm in.
I'm sorry, if I ever hurt your feelings.
Posted 12 years ago # -
To the use of Lua: No. Make that a HELL NO. Do you know how Damn Small Linux died? The use of murgaLua for everything and an author that doesn't understand the GPL. He essentially, by his asshattery, killed DSL. I don't want SliTaz to suffer the same fate.
Also back to an interpretive vs binary argument:
Binary Fast.
Interpreted Script Slow.
End of storyIf you tried Nimrod you would notice the compiler creates an compiler cache after the first time you compile a program. This means each compile of said program afterwards is lightning fast. Also with the built-in debugger code (which you can strip after your done with -d:release) helps track down problems. Edit-Compile-Test-Debug Cycle is now comparable to using a interpretive script. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it!
Posted 12 years ago #
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