SLITAZ 5 => Slitaz for Newbies now !

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SLITAZ 5 => Slitaz for Newbies now !

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Started 11 years ago by moulefrite
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moulefrite

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Hi All,

I know that everyone is wondering if Slitaz 5 will be release soon or not.

But I suggest a simple direction :

**Slitaz 5 hasn't to be revolutionnary but just focus on what Slitaz has to offer by now**

____________________________________________________

-->>> Packages into Slitaz 5 :

- Good balance between RAM install (speed) and HD install (quick boot) : So find a hybrid soluce
: often used Soft's : in RAM, and things like codec's : on HD.
I'm not really seduced by the actual nested .gz solution. Idea: frugal session targets some stuff installed on HD.

- Add as default all the stuff a basic user needs : STABLE browser, flash, mediaplayer with codecs, robust pdf reader, WINRAR included in the right click, Voice on IP ... The office suite is problematic and shouldn't be included (not Gtk, ugly, incompatible .. grrr!.. forget it)

- Nothing using something else than gtk and stable (gnome-mplayer doesn't work :( ! )

- Keep in mind that a newbie should present Slitaz5 to another newbie!

____________________________________________________

-->>> Compatibility in Slitaz 5 :

- I had always advocate the WinXP philosophy : a CD with the MAX chance to see your hardware recognized after install. WinXP just installs the needed drivers, nothing else. It should be the
same for a special version of Slitaz ISO. Having to download a ethernet or wireless firmware is a non-sense.

____________________________________________________

-->>> No more amnesy with frugal install .

- Slitaz 5 install should be frugal by default! In these times, very few people waste time with a 128mb computer (" Hi hi let's see if this old dino works with Linux.. oh! it does.. and so ???") On the other hand, most people has a 1GB-2GB laptop and thinks as hell that their computer is down and should buy a new Win8 spy-sh*t : Why ? Because their HD are completely destroyed by endless youtube session, anti-virus, adwares .. etc .. etc ! Slitaz in RAM is such a speed suprise that it is probably THE ONLY way for a casual computer user to switch to Linux (I've tested Ubuntu with unity on a netbook.. ok guys, let's keep going with W7)

- Problem ... (newbie speaking on) Why did I have to introduce each time my WAP password ? Why did I have to explain everytime to Slitaz I want to open my mp4 with my player ? (newbie speaking off)

_____________________________________________________

----->>> My suggestion : a first boot assistance

A max hardware compatible Slitaz5 ISO with a gtk check button interface to force the user to :
- check the hardware he wants to install with some direct test (like in WinXP)
- check the softs he wants to install (but check by default the best suggestion) and configure/auto-configure files you want to open with (but also the sub-choices ! exe : png with Viewnor then mtPaint then gimp ...)
- define some Screen,Internet,Gtk theme configuration (and other) and write it in menu.lst as boot choice.

And build a nice rootfs.gz which will be installed frugal in the right place.

_____________________________________________________

----->>> !!!!!!!!!!! The utlimate goal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can give to my sister an usb key and say : "just plug-it, boot, read the screen" with no fear
that she says " you p*ss me off with your non-working geek stuff " ;)

____________________________________________________

I say all that, because I really feel here, that no one is "business oriented" and prefer to
fix some minor problems rather than kick the ball to the goal.

Posted 11 years ago #
Trixar_za

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You've never really looked at Windows XP, have you? So installing the 3Com and ATI drivers even have you don't own either is needed? Use XPlite to see what else gets added that you don't need.

I couldn't get it to install on a new Laptop either and it installed the wrong video drivers (that keeps it from booting) on another P3 I have. This was just in this week. Maybe pick an example that's based on the Linux Kernel.

Gtk is also the lightest you'll get. It's not unstable and it's what gnome is built on. Just because some applications coded in it sucks, doesn't mean it sucks as a whole.

We also only have a limited amount of space to keep within the 160Mb to 192Mb limit imposed by our minimum requirements. Also a completely RAM version would be really sensitive to memory errors, power cuts or bad shutdowns. Only part should be in RAM and it should swapped around as needed. That would make it more stable and probably lower the memory requirements.

Posted 11 years ago #
slimhunter

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"very few people waste time with a 128mb computer (" Hi hi let's see if this old dino works with Linux.. oh! it does.. and so ???")"

I'm one of those crazy ones who try to put back to life old machines for donating them to people who can't afford neither a low cost computer...

IMHO, slitaz should still take care of legacy hardware...that's one of the points that makes Linux stronger even under another point of view: reduce the waste of old IT hardware.

Posted 11 years ago #
Trixar_za

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slimhunter: You get people that are even crazier than that. There is still a thriving Win3.1x community there that loves to run it on 386 Machines with like 8MB of RAM. You even get something called Calmira to make it look and work similar to the newer Windows:

Windows 3.11 running Calmira XP in DosBox - Incidentally you can use this method to run 16bit games on Windows 7/8 Beginner/Standard or 64bit systems.
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Posted 11 years ago #
moulefrite

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" I'm one of those crazy ones who try to put back to life old machines for donating them to people who can't afford neither a low cost computer...

IMHO, slitaz should still take care of legacy hardware...that's one of the points that makes Linux stronger even under another point of view: reduce the waste of old IT hardware. "

_______________

In which country do you live ? That's the question.
1° In Western, most of the MOUNTAIN of second-hand computer is situated around the 512mb-2gb laptop's : the old ones which people think that they need to throw away to switch to W8 or a Mac to avoid lags, freezes and other problems.. Giving a 128mb computer, even with Slitaz on it, is not really a gift but rather a pain in the a*s. P1,2,3 and even 4 are dismantled in India for eternity now. Nowadays, you cannot even go cleanly on Internet with it ! So forget it.

2° If you REALLY want to reduce the IT hardware waste and STOP the "bleeding", we better focus on the freshly "outdated" hardware and prouve to people that with Slitaz on a "old" Core2 Duo beats
a i5 with W8. The idea is to show people TO KEEP their stuff rather than find out some computosors at the antique dealer for fun.

3° My mission is to bring COMMON users (not 0,2% folks) to use Slitaz in everyday task's (99,9% Firefox+Facebook) and make them leave the Windows paradigm once for ever. EVEN MORE since the worrisome Snowden's matter ! It's not only a question of hardware but also a struggle of preservation of privacy. So forget Cyrix and 486, it's just a waste of time.

The countless newbies change often their computers, they are the targets if you want to reduce waste. Their are the breach of whom the flow of computer stocks pours out from their warehouse.

Nevertheless, supporting very old hardware shouldn't be an issue.
__________

That's why I think that aiming the goal of a 100% "out-of-the-box" solution for Slitaz should be
set up for the fifth version.

A ISO with :
1° ALL the hardware Slitaz can support.
2° some most popular packages (stable and only gtk)
3° a bunch of good wallpaper, openbox themes(Slitaz,Ubuntu,Fedora,Mint,MacOs.. color theme)
4° the possibility to define with ease a WHOLE user profil (wireless,language,screen conf,language,keypad...)

A big ISO ... BUT .. a small rootfs.gz for a frugal install

5° and, A SPECIAL GUIDE with check button (after first launch and before a Frugal Install), which will help to check step-by-step the 4 previous points and will writeiso after a while (produce a fitted-stripped rootfs.gz) beside a unique user-profil file (so if I update my packages or system, I can save my profile before)

You will say to me : "Uh, all these packages they can download them by them self .. why make a 300Mb Iso ?

- Because, If I say to a newbie : "Oh man, try Slitaz! Wonderfull ! Just google "Slitaz", go on mirror, download ISO, be careful of the version .. hi hi .. put it on usb .. lol .. easy! no ? ..
boot,.. black screen ? You have ATI ? .. install .. oh yes.. the password, no not your one yet.. .. install what you want .. what ? For sure, the mirror, you see ? .. So, for the wireless, you have to .. mmh.. download the packages ..screen conf go to X11 and you can edit with ease the file .... hi hi . and so on .. and so on ... and so on ... and so on.... 1% of success to convert your friend!

- If I go, by my self with the the basic Slitaz 4, I will probably take 2 hours to make a fitted Slitaz system IF I face no black screens, other issue like no Internet connection. Even putting Slitaz beside Windows can be a challenge. And here again, If the user see above my shoulder, me haggling with command lines, rebooting 3 times, he would probably getting irritated with the countless " Linux is better but .. oh, wait another 5 mins please"

- The fact is, that most people are lazy and they won't pay a sh1t to SLitaz if they will face a single effort to understand. It's not for fun that big compagnies pay millions to psychologist, ergonomist, marketing directions to go into the mind of a newbie.

Slitaz has now all the necessary to seduce common people, just let make a little kick to the goal.

Posted 11 years ago #
slimhunter

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@moulefrite, I write from Sardinia, Italy :)
I understand and also approve some parts of your post, some PCs are unusable for nowadays' web browsing, but please don't say so:

"Giving a 128mb computer, even with Slitaz on it, is not really a gift but rather a pain in the a*s. P1,2,3 and even 4 are dismantled in India for eternity now. Nowadays, you cannot even go cleanly on Internet with it ! So forget it."

Let's be a little more precise about the use of these computers: even if I can have hardware better than that for few euros, I must confess you that in the last three years I've been using with much pleasure a P3 800EB with 128MB SDRAM with slitaz 3 for downloading files via transmission and jdownloader.
It just works, why I should change it? It's a perfect low cost, non-energy-eater machine for that use...think about how many of these have been ditched in favor of miniPCs, which do the exact same things but with a great waste of hardware and money.

Your idea may work for P1 and P2 (which - to be honest - can still be used as typing machines), but P3 are still quite usable. P4 is perfect for the use you mentioned (Firefox ->youtube\facebook\twitter etc.), even with few ram. And anyway, if ram is not enough you can just upgrade it, instead of throwing away a good CPU ;)

@Trixar_za, you just made me discover a new world *-*
I gotta say that some time ag I looked back at win98 and thought: wow, we really need a minimalist OS in terms of appearance, just like this one...maybe with better colours instead of that sad blue :D few years later...voilà, windows 8 ^_^
If you know where I can find a nice .obt with this appearance, I'd be grateful to you for my life :p

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/f/f7/Windows_98_Desktop.gif

Posted 11 years ago #
moulefrite

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Sorry slimhunter, I'm always a bit harsh in my comments when I face an opinon I identify as nerd-oriented ;p . It's like I'm living between 2 planets.
But I just want to let you know that a set of 3 "single task" P3 800 computers will consume FAR MORE energy than a "multi-task" 2 Ghz Atom processor. So, for me, it's not a problem to throw away an old ineffective computer as long as it's recycled.

Just understand I'm aiming the computers people are ready to throw away, not the ones already thrown ;)

Posted 11 years ago #
slimhunter

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Ehi, don't take my POV as a complete discard of your opinion ;) I can be nerdy\geeky but I understand how frustrating can be several problems for a newbie ;)
I hope slitaz will fit better in your comfort zone in the future releases ^^

ATM, all i have to ask to slitaz is:
- working skype with integrated webcam recognized OOTB
- stable midori or similar alternative as default browser (NOT firefox\chromium and derivatives...too heavy)
- bugfixes for lxpanel disappearing

the rest may be very appreciated (such as new wallpapers and slim themes that i've seen in other post by aleksej) but secondary in my opionion...first it should be basic but fully usable, then we'll see the bling bling stuff ;)

A big hug from my land, thanks for exposing your ideas :D

Posted 11 years ago #
moulefrite

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yep, as long as midori cannot connect to a wide spread mailbox as hotmail, this is a discalification criteria. Sad but true. Can hardly ask someone to change his mailbox...

Ubuntu had a great idea : a board were people can notify if something works or not

Posted 11 years ago #
Trixar_za

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slimhunter: Calmira looks like Windows 95/98 by default. I just used the XP themed one that somebody made. I had to hack the graphics driver to make the window's minimize, maximize and menu buttons look like that, but there is a program on the internet that can do that for you.

moulefrite: Seems the mailing list isn't interested so much in reviving SliTaz. If we're going to make SliTaz 5, I think we're pretty much on our own.

Posted 11 years ago #
sixofeight

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@moulefrite

Wake up you little Dreamer.

Yes, I can see that you like Slitaz, so do I. BUT:

1.How do someone come in contact with slitaz?
Because he/she is searching for a small OS. Why?,because they have old
Boxes.If you have a 8-16-32Gb-ram, 3-4Ghz-cpu-Machine,every nowadays
Distro will run flawlessly,providing more features/comfort/useability.

2.Please don't overload Sz with wizzards.
If you will give some Linux to your Sister or a newbie,take Puppy

3.I really don't want to believe that,but maybe we will never have a
Version 5. Why do I think so?.
Look around, how many different names do you see working on Sz and
building it?.
Who took the leadership?,who has a plan?
I hope that I'm completly wrong but I see the sun is going down
( Pankso where are you?)

Posted 11 years ago #
moulefrite

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sixofeight,

1° Yes, you are right but for a part only. It's not just a question of speed but also a question of simplicity : no updates, no-antivirus.. Works like a calculator once every thing fixed. And I think that privacy could be a seductive aspect, more than before with that Snowden's matter. And come on, who really likes to be on W8 ? lol ;p

2° No, SLitaz is far more nice looking and clear than Puppy linux. I have nothing against Puppy but I still don't understand how it's possible to do such a work and be so messy with visual aspect at the end of the chain. For me, Slitaz and Linux Mint share together all the field of user demand.

3° Yes I feel sorry with all this, even if we have Key Masters like Trixar, Mojo, Alexei.. & Co it looks like a fire which goes out. I advocate a simple way to put some oxygen to the project : bring down a identifiable barrier which separate us from a bunch of curious newbies - set easily a system with a swollen ISO and a Wizzard - but it's sounds too simple (so too complicated) for the experts here around. I will sound pathetic but I have no technical competence to create this Wizzard.

If a newbie can set up a system without having to go and return between this forum (displayed on his Win PC) and the PC he's trying to set Slitaz on, as a Marketing sub-director of a big compagny, I can predict a big entousiasm and prophets - such we are - can encourage people to test SLitaz as well as we know that it will be no more a struggle.

May my idea reachs your head during your dreams :p

Good night all,

P.S : as told before, the idea is not to do big ISO to install a big system, but just have all the necessary to maximize a first boot succes and be independant of a Internet connection. After that just select the strict necessary before a "writeiso.

Posted 11 years ago #
sixofeight

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@moulefrite

I also prefer the minimalistic way of Slitaz, and Security,Privacy
is becoming more and more important for us.(PRISM).
On the other hand It seems that 98% of the "normal"-(windoze) users
really don't care.....unbeliveable...

What I,'m trying to say is ,if someone has a modern PC, I'm sure
he/she will use Linux-mint,ubuntu etc, and don't even take a look
at Slitaz because there is no need to do so.

I named Puppy just for an Example,I'm sure, if you try, you can configure
it to look nicer.

Windoze???----no windoze here at all

and yes I understand your suggestions/intentions

Posted 11 years ago #
tazpider

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I think all of previous posts include a part of reality, but moulefrite is closest to my private opinion :)

Personally, although I use new laptops, I was searching for smal, fast and secure in terms of privacy distro. I guess however that the reasons why someone gives Slitaz a try is not importand in this case. If you really need it - you will spend you time to fix all issues in order to get it working.
But if it was just you curiosity to test new distro ("Can really 30mb iso include full operating system?!?") and you can't boot it correctly from the first try, you probably never get back to it.

It seems to me like a wizzard preparing fully operational rootfs.gz is a fair point to be considered. It wouldn't make the system havier, it would just make newbies life easier.

Posted 11 years ago #
moulefrite

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Yeah ! Thanks for support tazpider :)

I'm so willing, after a discution about privacy and M$, to give someone a Slitaz Live-CD and say "Feel free to test it".
Because, I always feel suspicious when I propose someone ( I don't really know ) to go with at his home to touch his computer for 1 hour :s . Moreover, the guy/girl wonders if I'm not installing some malwares when he/she a black screen. It's always a bit insane situation. I prefer him to test alone and come back to me if he has some questions. Why? because even I "force" him/her I can never be sure he/she will really use it after! So a nice Wizzard could be the best to make cool frugal install beside his WinXP,7 and let him convince itself that Slitaz matches 99% of his needs : Surfing on Internet while listening music.

Slitaz + Firefox + Flash + Mplayer = 200Mb rootfs.gz with no compression.

The Wizzard should be used to produce a single config file and to make sure people have correctly configured ALL before make writeiso. Because, sometimes we forget things such : sound,screen-resolution,Wireless(even if we use ethernet, could be we want to switch to wireless easily if one want to take the laptop to bed),configure default application to open a certain type of file, make another keyboard/language profil if one expect another user to use the system...

How can we make launch that file at boot ? Easy: with the config=myscript.sh option in the menu.lst or the extlinux.conf and eventually move the commands to /etc/init.d/local.sh

Why don't try to make Slitaz a perfect Internet and media's Player distribution accessible for all?

Posted 11 years ago #

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