SliTaz Forum

SliTaz and Debian

(11 posts) (5 voices)

• Started 9 years ago by Aleksej
• Latest reply from Trixar_za
• This topic is not a support question

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1. 

   Aleksej
   

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   Coder-hobbyist

   Hi there,

   Reading html page from SliTaz ISO (see on Hg). Found something new for me:

   SliTaz also uses goodies from the Debian project.

   Who will tell me about these misterious "goodies"?
   TIA

   Posted 9 years ago #
2. 

   oui
   

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   Member

   Hi Aleksej

   What is mysterious for you?

   I suppose the built-in ability to manage correctly some little things like Debian does (ar and dpkg). I suppose that SliTaz did get that performance from busybox? In the past, it was possible to start correctly debootstrap in SliTaz (debootstrap did require two operators: ar and wget) and get a operable Debian basic core. As I never use some usb stick and have no CD any more (only very old CD's, so I can start SliTaz from Web but Debian; and it is not possible any more to start a Debian installation from Mini-CD using it "frugal" as the boot file are in the second tree level and Grub can't operate with file in second tree level, I did try to install with debootstrap out a running SliTaz. It did not success. I suppose that our bash / shell are today becoming to be too different!).

   I am sorry but it is not a profit for SliTaz to become more isolated from all the other major distribution. It would be a great advantage to be able to complete the own system with Debian or Slackware packages (or Redhat, but this part of the Linux world did become to commercial for me...). It was an error to introduce a own packaging system and not to copy as a slave a preexistent one! Intercompatibility is always an advantage for all! Why not directly *.deb's (or Slackware packages)?

   Kind regards

   Posted 9 years ago #
3. 

   Aleksej
   

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   Coder-hobbyist

   Hi oui,

   I just can't understand which part of Debian (possible, small part) SliTaz uses.
   I'm with SliTaz not from scratch — first SliTaz version I've use was SliTaz 3.0. And I've not found Debian parts there.
   Last year I started SliTaz versions 1.0 and 2.0, just out of curiosity. It was too fast to see details, so maybe some Debian goodies was used in that SliTaz versions?

   As for "ar" — this type of archive used to "glue together" static libraries and its configuration files, and you'll find them in the *-dev packages (something like /usr/lib/*.a). I don't knew it's Debian.

   As for "dpkg" — yes, it is Debian packages installer. But it is just one of Busybox applet. I've experimented with it a bit, and it can help to install local .deb package, and remove it. Also, it uses own packages database. But, but — it is not a package manager — it is just a tool that install and remove already download files with .deb format. Seems, SliTaz not uses it at all. But I think it is very promised feature — just to install .deb package in a time of second rather than unpack .deb, then pack .tazpkg, then unpack .tazpkg to install it — it's so long and consumes alot of CPU.

   As for SliTaz own packages format — I think we need it as long as SliTaz lives. Own format, own packages allows SliTaz maintainers to control all the compilation and packaging stages of making a package. It allows to have small and fast packages with less unwanted dependencies. Also, it allows to be conservative, and not to switch to the latest "things", usefullness of that I think, is under question — GTK3, Python3, Qt5, Systemd...

   And, of course, if you need to install "alien" package in to SliTaz — you can do it in most cases — Pascal added a large formats support into TazPkg.

   Oui, thank you for discussion.

   Posted 9 years ago #
4. 

   Trixar_za
   

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   Key Master

   It's just that the original SliTaz was created on a Debian system - which would explain the use of Debian's compile tools. There is also evidence that some of the larger original packages may have been converted and stripped rather than self-compiled, but only for the non-essential ones. Later versions used only self-compiled packages, so SliTaz has always been mostly self-contained.

   Posted 9 years ago #
5. 

   oui
   

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   Member

   Hi Aleksej

   Thank you for your long argumentation.

   "alien" packages are a need for all. without them, you have no choice and have to leave SliTaz each time you need a non included application.

   no, non included application is not a very special application! each man needs non included applications: the one will only see TV with an adapted frontend in the internet, the second will register a new birth in the genealogical "gramps "(python dependant app!), the next is a fan of daily notes and time controlling for him himself, an other will see where he did drive today and amend some error in the actual maps stuff being online and needs "merkaartor" and/or "marble-QT" (as KDE ist absolutely not available)...

   if it would be so easy, those applications, all realistic, would already be available at SliTaz but they are

   not...

   I did discover an heavy medical free and really high professional software made in France in the web. also this software is not available at SliTaz... I can understand it: it is fully normal as it is an highly professional software! But how to do if I am not a developer to add it in SliTaz? More, how to do it if I am not concerned myself: My son and my daughter in law are physicians, not I, myself. I will show them those possibilities (they have no free time for that, young physicians work 70 h / week, yes 68 h/weekl. PER CONTRACT, no way to short cut this among of hours: you have to be ready to make 10..15 hours more weekly if necessary; compile not compatible packages! no time! after resurrection if you become a second time a physician, you will do it perhaps at studying time if you have some time for hobbys) made in his second mother land (he is a German physician but have also the French nationality, my nationality); I need them only to show them to two other persons.... How to do that in SliTaz really!!! It is over the limit of realistic engagement for Linux! Nobody under simple users compile and install some relative easy application, but a big package for hospitals!!! Waho! It is absolutely not realist and it is the reason why Linux is and will stay a system for hobbyists: The stress to use it under professional environment is to high excepted if fortuitously your university starts somewhat in that direction and YOU ARE yet at the university...

   new developments happen today if possible at Android as the developer are hopping some money for her work!

   "diviser pour régner", divide and rule, is an old method to conter an enemy! in our case, Linux, nothing to do: Linux does it itself! completely willful! it is to laugh

   please, Aleksej what would be today Windows if after the time of IBM-PC Microsoft did dictate a new format instead *.exe or *.asm? nothing good... It did happen, really, for system binaries, but the public did never really accept and use the new formats... only the fully automatic installer use them...

   if we will a powerful Linux, we have to avoid to divide it in "guerres de clochers" (wars steeples? says google translation...).

   kind regards

   Posted 9 years ago #
6. 

   Aleksej
   

   offline

   Coder-hobbyist

   Hi oui,
   Sorry, I don'd know your name.
   I understand you in general, though not to the end. My English is not very good.

   Oh, these human destinies! Not everything is subject to us; not everything we can to change; not everything we can choose. Once choosing a destiny, we stay with it forever. And you have to work for 70­–85 hours per week. And no free time. For nothing… Oh, fear and terror! But there is something for which this destiny was chosen?!

   To each his own. Even not all people have a goal in life. Important, large, the real goal. I really respect people who know what they want in life, people who have a goal and go for it, those who are in daily routine do not lose sight of the distant goal. I respect your son and daughter in law. And I'm just a human being is a pity that they have absolutely no free time. And I understand that you want to show them something. Professional medical software, right?

   SliTaz developers have always gone to meet the wishes of users. Just write here on the forum, what programs would you like to see in SliTaz. Point to official site. We are a small number of developers, and we are trying to do what we can. But not all wishes are achievable. And achieving these desires should be interesting! It's not my job, it does not bring me money, it takes my free time, but it gives me special pleasure. The old Linux slogan — “Just for fun” is the best explains the situation. This is not a job, spending my free time for SliTaz, I rest.

   There are too few SliTaz developers. Those who makes changes to SliTaz packages, can be seen in hg.slitaz.org/wok. Truly the main developer — Pascal, a real professional, a man of deep knowledge in computer subjects. And a few more people who sometimes, from time to time make changes to the packages. Now no orders for new packages, so everyone is doing what he is interested, having received their portion of fun. It's a pity some of the new program is now impossible to compile. A large number of programs to upgrade is not within our power… I can try to help, I can do the new software packages for SliTaz, but my possibilities are limited. Since you called one of the programs — gramps — then for sure I decided to make a package. The package is ready, but it is unlikely it will work. We have pygobject < 3.3.2, and we have not pangocairo with introspection bindings, as well as osmgpsmap and PyICU, and few more packages. By the way, it seems that they release their own distribution. Is it worth it try to make these packages to eventually gramps software start to work? Yes, if it makes you happy.

   Further, regarding Android, and Microsoft, which you mentioned.

   Everyone chooses the kind of pleasure, which he likes. Some like to be a celebrity. Some people like to be very rich. Someone likes to suffer and be tortured. Someone likes tasty meal. Someone get pleasure from the fact that he is one of the few experts in the world on some ancient dialect. Some like to dominate men. Someone likes to kill and abuse.

   Developers of “willful” Linux does not want to conquer the world. They're just interested in doing what they are doing. The games of adult children. You can laugh all you want, but in the life of a person must necessarily be favorite activity, which does not necessarily make money. I think that people are born to enjoy. One can choose their favorite type of pleasure. And not all of them are associated with money.

   Do you really think that Microsoft did not change the formats?? Please briefly read the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.exe
   Everything that you call "exe" has long evolved since the IBM PC and continues to evolve: MZ, NE, LX, LE, NE, PE…
   You think you can successfully run some old Windows program on the new system? Good luck, it is useful to you.

   Several times to change the format of the NTFS file system. Slowly changing the file format of Word text processor, until it finally turned from doc into a docx. By the way, Autodesk corporation often, maybe even every year, releases new version of its flagship product — AutoCAD. And of course, the drawings saved in AutoCAD 2014, we can not open in our AutoCAD 2010. Which, incidentally, costs just crazy money.

   What I would like to say in closing?
   Why separation occurs? Because each person has their own opinion, which he holds dear. People can be combined with the same interests. But there is simply no absolutely similar people. In any community, there is room for disagreement.

   In general, we are engaged in a common cause. Some partial solutions can be adapted in most cases.
   It is not the “guerres de clochers”, just that we see the world a little differently.

   With best wishes.

   Posted 9 years ago #
7. 

   Bellard
   

   offline

   Key Master

   > I did discover an heavy medical free and really high professional software made in France in the web. also this software is not available at SliTaz...

   > But how to do if I am not a developer to add it in SliTaz?

   You can start to write the receipt in http://paste.slitaz.org/ like that:

   # SliTaz package receipt.
   
   PACKAGE="ThePackageName"
   VERSION="TheVersion"
   SHORT_DESC="Something from the web site."
   WEB_SITE="http://the.web.site/"
   WGET_URL="the download link to the sources"
   

   Not sure it will take hours.

   Nobody will help you without some information about your expected packages.

   Posted 9 years ago #
8. 

   oui
   

   offline

   Member

   Hi

   Thank you very much for above very positive answer to my comment (the topic was not my ;-) ; I did require nothing there, only comment the relation between 2 very different distros...).

   I miss myself geographic applications. on this field, SliTaz offers nothing. Merkaartor is a Belgian application and as it being to be supported by the Francophone community of SliTaz. Unfortunately Merkaartor did be away in the last year for long month but since 15. March 2015 someone did reinstalle the site: http://merkaartor.be/news and https://github.com/openstreetmap/merkaartor .

   Merkaartor is not only a tool for openstreetmap (but is one! especially for old hardware and little distributions as it does not need java and PC power for heavy java app's) and it allow to produce very good maps of the own environment completely independently of openstreetmap, or to integrate them in openstreetmap.

   The second Geographic app able to run in SliTaz would be Marble, a kind of "google earth". today the EU commission did intervene against Google. ok! but, what else? if you refuse Google, actually, nothing else... No translator, no maps, a poor world because nobody take care to help other producer of software like Marble (Marble is free and open source and participate to the KDE project but is also available as a QT4 app outside of KDE) to acquire a good place in the stage of the software.

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marble_(software)

   The third need I meet in SliTaz are spell checking dictionaries.

   If I use Xombrero in Kubuntu (is the old version xxxterm, but it is the same, see history of upgrades of Xombrero) I can use in the same text dictionaries for 1, 2 or perhaps more languages at the same time. it is the only one Linux program where I am knowing this performance (I am not expert but I did never meet such an offer in other programs!) at writing time!

   I don't know which spelling dictionaries Xombrero is using. but, as in SliTaz with the same xombrero.conf no spell checking happens, I suppose that SliTaz uses other dictionaries (::) ... I did install in SliTaz those I did found in the list of applications being available (aspell as well as aspell-fr, aspell-ru, aspell-etc etc.). I suppose that nobody did take care on this uncomplete but really important mater (for this reason I am writing this message out XXXTERM in Kubuntu else I normaly start my PC in SliTaz! My wife uses only SliTaz since weeks as she only uses German web and is really good in her language and does normally not need some spelling control. But it is different for me as I am writing in 2 languages being foreing languages for me, English and German!). I find the support for orthography and grammar control is not enough in SliTaz and it is today an important figures of really good software (also here I use Google (again!!!) if I am not certain! We can't live any more without Google because the EU, for us in West Europe, did sleep and do nothing all this time!)

   Posted 9 years ago #
9. 

   pankso
   

   offline

   Key Master

   Hi Aleksej,

   Even me I dont know from where this goodies come from... I guess is it a mistake from our contributor translation since the first html page for the cd was written by me in french 9 year ago and was not realy modified from then.

   All I know is that ther is any Debian goodies in SliTaz!

   - Christophe

   Posted 9 years ago #
10. 

    Aleksej
    

    offline

    Coder-hobbyist

    Hi Christophe,

    Nice to see you again! :D

    Posted 9 years ago #
11. 

    Trixar_za
    

    offline

    Key Master

    Hi Pankso! Guess who's back to messing with buildroot.

    Posted 9 years ago #

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