SliTaz Forum

Whats next?

(6 posts) (5 voices)

• Started 4 years ago by kultex
• Latest reply from kultex
• This topic is not a support question

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1. 

   kultex
   

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   Key Master

   As kernel 3.16 will end next april - https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html - what will happen with SliTaz?

   I just quote some lines from Alexej - http://forum.slitaz.org/topic/meet-slitaz-next64/page/3:

   Sorry, the development of SliTaz Next stopped. It's hard to non-programmer to follow all the updates on the one hand, and to find reliable patches to the legacy on the other hand. About a week ago I tried to follow LFS to update the toolchain. No luck. Every time gcc failed to make the new version of itself after long, more than a hour, runs.

   I think I can't cope with the software. And I think I should not repeat the things already resolved on other Linux distributions by myself. I think it will better if I'll use some other small Linux distro, most-least actively developed, with good package base and without systemd :) Well, I think I'll use its packages to make SliTaz clone (like made tower using cubes) and will make SliTaz native packages to it if I will need them.

   Maybe Pascal or Hans Guenther have an idea, how tho continue and fix SliTaz next - this would be at the moment the best and quickest solution.

   On the other hand, there is no cross compilation in next, and I think a SliTaz ARM Branch would be great, because ARM-devices are getting more and more important - a lot of new ARM Laptops with windows are coming in autumn (Snapdragon 8cx, Snapdragon SQ1)

   So I think, the idea of forking another distribution is not a bad idea.

   I am not convinced by Adelie. Adelie linux is a fork of Alpine linux - https://lists.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/alpine-devel/%3C5975E0C0.1030008%40adelielinux.org%3E - and I wanted to try Adelie 1.0 RC4 on my machines and it does not even boot.

   I tried quite a lot of distributions, because on my new machines, SliTaz with kernel 3.16 does not run and I am mainly convinced by Arch and Alpine.

   I use arch-arm on most of my arm devices (Odroid U3, Pine Rock64, EspressoBin) and alpine on the Raspberrys (its quicker) - on my Intel Celeron Laptops I use at the moment porteus - but not very convinced.

   So lets have a look on arch:

   Arch is based on systemd - so not really suitable for SliTaz, but there is a OpenRC/runit-clone of arch - Artix - https://artixlinux.org/, so it could be worth looking on it.

   And my favorit still is Alpine Linux:

   Without systemd, busybox based, 32 and 64 bit and arm version - https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_on_ARM

   And I think, that not only Aleksej can present a Alpine-SliTaz version, I think, that most of the SliTaz users can do this:

   A good intro is this article: https://blog.overops.com/my-alpine-desktop-setting-up-a-software-development-environment-on-alpine-linux/

   And Alpine has a tool like tazlito - https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/How_to_make_a_custom_ISO_image_with_mkimage

   I think, quite a lot of the SliTaz tools should somehow work - of course with some small modifications, because also busibox based and then we can share the image and develope it further on.

   Personally I would vote for a fusion of Alpine and SliTaz, but this has to be decided by somebody else.

   At the moment, I do not have time, but in february and march, I think, with my kind of knowledge I could join this special dev-team.

   Posted 4 years ago #
2. 

   Ceel
   

   offline

   Administrator

   Hello kultex,

   What about Void Linux?
   I started to have a look at it this summer and it seemed to me interesting.
   Did you try it?

   On 2020 february 1th, I'll be a happy young retired. I should have a lot of free time. It'll be with great pleasure that I will give a hand. Don't hesitate to ask me for tests and all other things that I could do.

   Posted 4 years ago #
3. 

   Aleksej
   

   offline

   Coder-hobbyist

   Hi there,

   As kernel 3.16 will end next April - what will happen with SliTaz?

   I think - nothing special will happen. SliTaz updated its kernel several times already.

   Maybe Pascal or Hans Guenther have an idea, how tho continue and fix SliTaz next - this would be at the moment the best and quickest solution.

   SliTaz Next repository is abandoned by me. I will not return to cookutils and tazpkg as package builder and package manager respectively, after I have tried something else - and I like it very much - abuild and apk.

   Cookutils and tazpkg reaches that point at which it is better to re-write all from scratch. But I don't think I will cope with it, and also I have a better solution, I feel myself comfortable now with abuild "recipes".

   I am not convinced by Adelie. Adelie linux is a fork of Alpine linux - https://lists.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/alpine-devel/%3C5975E0C0.1030008%40adelielinux.org%3E

   Hmm, it's looks like not very clear story. Adélie writes on its FAQ: We are not related to the Alpine Linux distribution, though we are using the same APK package manager. And so on...

   and I wanted to try Adelie 1.0 RC4 on my machines and it does not even boot.

   I use [skipped] alpine on the Raspberrys

   Well, I managed to boot Alpine only in commandline mode and not tried to boot Adélie yet.

   Artix - https://artixlinux.org/, so it could be worth looking on it.

   Maybe. But I'm not sure I will try it in near years, to be honest.

   I like Arch wiki — it is very… hmm… maintained. And I like Arch repository of "recipes" — it is very maintained too. But I don't see SliTaz as a part of Arch/Artix, don't know why.

   I am not convinced by Adelie.

   Frankly, I'm too — over the days I use it to make "missing" packages. I found Adélie a bit strange.
   I will try (on November, when my vacation starts) to install Alpine build tools to the SliTaz chroot like I made it with Adélie previously and to use my "recipes" to the "missing" packages on Alpine. I think all will be good and I will use Alpine, not Adélie, as SliTaz Next base. (Hmm, may I use "SliTaz Next" branding to it now??)

   And Alpine has a tool like tazlito - https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/How_to_make_a_custom_ISO_image_with_mkimage

   Thank you for this useful link. It will be in use soon.

   I think, quite a lot of the SliTaz tools should somehow work - of course with some small modifications, because also busibox based and then we can share the image and develope it further on.

   Some of the SliTaz tools will be useful, I think. Some patches will be required.
   And, I found abuild a great tool to make packages though, and it contains out of the box some tools I've implemented for the cookutils recently, I want to add some great parts from cookutils to the SliTaz version of abuild, I'm talking about compressor and web interface.

   What about Void Linux?

   Maybe the same as with the Artix — to put it in a long box.

   To summarize.

   • I found apk as a very quick and modern package manager.
   • I found abuild as good package build system with "recipes" that are very simple comparing to the SliTaz "receipts", they something about SliTaz v.2 recipes at the recent implementation (see acl receipt for example: both "main" and "dev" packages build with the single recipe, no need to genpkg_rules for the simple package split, it automated).
   • I'll use Alpine as a base.
   • I'll still use GitHub repository to place recipes, and will use my laptop (thanks, Thomas!) and maybe SliTaz server to make packages, and SliTaz mirror to store packages and packages database and ISO images.
   • When new ISO will out — help with testing will be very necessary.
   • Current SliTaz Rolling will be useful for really old hardware, no need to drop it down, or to update it very high.

   Posted 4 years ago #
4. 

   lm2
   

   offline

   Member

   @Ceel

   Thank you for giving me the idea of Void linux. First time I hear of it.
   I really like their sales speech:
   "Unlike trillions of other existing distros, Void is not a modification of an existing distribution. "

   trillions of distribs,that's why linux can't convince general public, because choose the right one is a huge problem for some people, including geeks.

   anyway, slitaz was a very powerful tool years ago when the third version was able to reborn pc from the 90s.. I still use it today in the 5RC version as a usb bootable key when needed. But in the idea since 2016 I saw too many practical unconvenient issues, such as installing some non-free software (even LO), connecting in wifi without being root or lot of other stuff.

   I keep it for old netbooks or laptops from 2014 or before (we have an army of laptops here) but I'll try to run Void Linux to replace the eating-too-much-resources fedora.

   thanks!

   Posted 4 years ago #
5. 

   mistfire
   

   offline

   Member

   TazPuppy was slitaz-based Puppy Linux. Its structure was 98% slitaz packages but it can easily swap kernels and its kernel modules.

   Posted 4 years ago #
6. 

   kultex
   

   offline

   Key Master

   @mistfire - I know, but in terms of security I am no puppy fan....

   but everybody can try TazPuppy beta 34- http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=113255&start=945

   @ceel yes I know Void, but I just throw it to trash, when I booted it and it ruined totally my USB-Stick. I had 8 or 9 differnt Linux Os on my USB stick - so like just in the train, when I had short time, just to boot one and test it.
   When I booted Void, somehow it booted to the Porteus desktop, but it was Void (I could see it on the used kernel) - I immediatly shut it down - but the stick was totally distroid. I have no idea, what happend, but I (mainly e2fsck) needed 4 hours to repair the stick - in the beginning, I thought it was unrepaiable - so Void went immediatly to trash. Since then I have 2 sticks - one with porteus and my data and a second one with all the rest.

   @Aleksej

   I think all will be good and I will use Alpine, not Adélie, as SliTaz Next base

   that makes me really happy, but - you knw, I love yor work and I adore your persistence, but when you just say "Current SliTaz Rolling will be useful for really old hardware, no need to drop it down, or to update it very high." I have to contradict.

   I never would ran a productive computer with kernel 3.16 - and if 3.16, then 3.16.75 and not 3.16.55 like the actual slitaz kernel.

   All the meltdown, spectre and all other recent security patches did not go into 3.16. I mean you know, what you do and I know, what I do, but never know, what the users of your distro do. And when I just read in SliTaz forum, that people use firefox 17, my hair stand on the end.
   I think all computers run by SliTaz users will run even with 5.x kernels, because only very old hadware was dropped - I just think, they should not be run with 3.16.

   Just to see whats good kernel security management - see the alpine logs:

   https://alpinelinux.org/posts/Alpine-3.10.3-released.html
   https://alpinelinux.org/posts/Alpine-3.10.2-released.html

   and its a mythos, that linux computers are not effected. I was attacked 3 times - just read the ebury documentation: https://www.welivesecurity.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/operation_windigo.pdf

   So just happy, that you continue!!!!!

   Posted 4 years ago #

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