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Hi,
I open this topic because public discussion need about development strategy of SliTaz.
At first, thanks at all developpers take free time to invest in project.
Today we have :
stable aka 4.0, very old
cooking (future 5.0), follow rolling release model.
Due of age of 4.0, more users use cooking as "stable" system.
With this, we lost workflow of "staging" zone between development and stable release.
I don't blame anyone, update of packages in cooking can and unfortunally break many packages.
I suggest setting up a "testing" environment but before we need focus on release stable.
In other topic gibor talk about upgrade gcc version, and agree with it, it's time to achieve goal of upgrade SliTaz.
It's no easy, but i think with all developpers and help of community we can define milestone and keep SliTaz, best small and up to date system.
Main reason last year i purpose sponsor and host gracefully, i absolutely don't want to see the project die.
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Hi, for what my opinion is worth, I would appreciate an upgrade to 4.0 with 32bit libraries (userspace). Then secondly, a full 64bit version that can be installed in the classic way.
I say this because from my tests it is not possible to obtain a live version on a par with a 4.0 with 64bit libraries. The volumes expand exponentially and goodbye to the ~50Mb live...
The current cooking (aka RC 5.0 blah blah) can be as always a testing for those who want to have fun with evolving packages, with all the risks involved, as always happened in the past.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ciao, per quello che può valere la mia opinione, apprezzerei un upgrade della 4.0 sempre con librerie a 32bit (userspace). Poi in secondo, una versione completa a 64bit da poter installare in modo classico.
Dico questo perché dalle mie prove non è possibile ottenere una live al pari di una 4.0 con librerie a 64bit. I volumi espandono in maniera esponenziale e addio alle live da ~50Mb...
La cooking attuale (alias RC 5.0 bla bla) può essere come sempre una testing per chi vuole divertirsi con i pacchetti in continua evoluzione, con tutti i rischi del caso, come sempre avvenivano anche in passato.
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Hi gibor,
you are right, cooking has most diverge and keep for testing only.
I follow your opinion we need upgrade 4.0 (that for me last stable state).
I continue work on 4.0 first milestone to have toolchain uptodate and rebuild with target glibc 2.19.
build base image and justx.
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Hi,
I put stuff on my space :
https://people.slitaz.org/~shann/slitaz-4.0-stuff/packages/
https://people.slitaz.org/~shann/slitaz-4.0-stuff/wok/
binutils 2.23.1
gcc 4.7.2 (mpfr 3.1.1, mpc 1.0.1, gmp 5.1.1)
make 4.3
glibc 2.14.1 (it's backward compatible with 2.13)
elfkickers 3.1
elfutils 0.153
continue to improve toolchain upgrade and prepare build of glibc 2.19.
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Hi,
With backward compat, glibc 2.19 updated smooth, i rebuild toolchain and first cook busybox.
busybox 1.18.4 failed, complain about rpc/rpc.h (remove in glibc 2.19), i updated to 1.23.2.
at this time, i have this toolchain :
binutils 2.23.1
gcc 4.9.2 (mpfr 3.1.2, mpc 1.0.2, gmp 6.0.0)
make 4.3
glibc 2.19
elfkickers 3.1
elfutils 0.153
m4 1.4.17
I build very small base rootfs to test live boot :
tux@slitaz:~$ tazpkg -l
List of all installed packages
================================================================================
attr 2.4.46 system-tools
busybox 1.23.2 base-system
bzlib 1.0.6 utilities
cdrkit 1.1.11 utilities
depmod 3.12 base-system
dialog 1.1-20110707 base-system
dropbear 2011.54 security
e2fsprogs 1.44.2 base-system
gcc-lib-base 4.9.2 development
gettext-base 0.18.1.1 base-system
glibc-base 2.19 base-system
kbd-base 1.15.3 base-system
libcap 2.19 system-tools
libcomerr 1.44.2 base-system
libtaz 1.6 base-system
linux 2.6.37 base-system
lzlib 4.57 base-system
lzma 4.57 base-system
ncurses 5.9 base-system
ncurses-common 5.9 base-system
ncursesw 5.9 base-system
readline 6.2 system-tools
slitaz-base-files 4.6 base-system
slitaz-boot-scripts 4.7.2 base-system
slitaz-configs-base 4.9.2 base-system
slitaz-tools 4.9.1 system-tools
tazlito 4.6.2 base-system
tazpkg 4.9.2 base-system
util-linux-ng-blkid 2.19.1 base-system
util-linux-ng-uuid 2.19.1 base-system
zlib 1.2.6 base-system
================================================================================
31 packages installed.
tux@slitaz:~$ /lib/libc.so.6
GNU C Library (GNU libc) stable release version 2.19, by Roland McGrath et al.
Copyright (C) 2014 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.
There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A
PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
Compiled by GNU CC version 4.9.2.
Compiled on a Linux 2.6.37 system on 2022-04-29.
Available extensions:
crypt add-on version 2.1 by Michael Glad and others
GNU Libidn by Simon Josefsson
Native POSIX Threads Library by Ulrich Drepper et al
BIND-8.2.3-T5B
libc ABIs: UNIQUE IFUNC
For bug reporting instructions, please see:
<http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/bugs.html>.
tux@slitaz:~$ uname -a
Linux slitaz 2.6.37-slitaz #2 SMP Thu May 16 19:27:13 CEST 2013 i686 GNU/Linux
tux@slitaz:~$ df -h
Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on
tmpfs 2.7G 19.1M 2.7G 1% /
tmpfs 1.5G 0 1.5G 0% /dev/shm
tux@slitaz:~$ free -m
total used free shared buffers
Mem: 3041 31 3009 0 0
-/+ buffers: 31 3009
Swap: 0 0 0
tux@slitaz:~$
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What about the work of Filou?
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Hi akm,
work of Filou to provide x86_64 full version is great and not in cause.
I think he can continue of work.
In same time, we need ensure that users have a stable version.
Cooking not for final users, it's for devs, users would like test and cutting edge.
I should be finish to rebuild 144 packages with glibc 2.19 (base 4.0 + packages of toolchain) remain few packages.
This list below of that :
[c]zlib
zlib-dev
ncurses
ncurses-common
ncurses-dev
texinfo
binutils
m4
gmp
gmp-dev
xz
liblzma
liblzma-dev
mpfr
mpfr-dev
bzip2
bzip2-dev
elfutils
elfutils-dev
mpc-library
gawk
gcc
libgfortran
gfortran
libobjc
libgomp
gcc-lib-base
ncursesw
ncursesw-extra
ncursesw-dev
readline
readline-dev
pcre
pcre-dev
db
libdb
db-dev
gdbm
gdbm-dev
less
tcl
tcl-dev
perl
openssl
libssl
libcrypto-dev
libcrypto
openssl-dev
sqlite
libsqlite
sqlite-dev
libffi
libffi-dev
libidn
libidn-dev
bison
libcap-ng
libcap-ng-dev
flex
autoconf
file
libmagic-dev
libmagic
wget
tar
python
python-dev
automake
util-linux-ng
util-linux-ng-uuid-dev
util-linux-ng-uuid
util-linux-ng-blkid
util-linux-ng-blkid-dev
libtool
libltdl
gperf
libxml2
libxml2-python
libxml2-dev
libxml2-tools
attr
attr-dev
bash
expat
expat-dev
pam
pam-dev
curl
libcurl
curl-dev
gettext
gettext-base
linux-api-headers
advancecomp
lua
lua-dev
rpcsvc-proto
popt
popt-dev
acl
acl-dev
e2fsprogs
libcomerr-dev
libcomerr
e2fsprogs-dev
glib
libgio-dev
libgio
glib-dev
glibc
glibc-base
glibc-extra-samba
glibc-locale
glibc-dev
perl-xml-parser
kbd
kbd-base
dev86
lzma
lzlib-dev
lzlib
groff
patch
busybox
bzlib
cookutils
dialog
dropbear
elfkickers
git
intltool
make
mercurial
nano
ncurses-extra
pkg-config
rsync
slitaz-boot-scripts
slitaz-configs
slitaz-configs-base
slitaz-toolchain
slitaz-tools
tazdev
tazpkg[/c]
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Hi,
i build and put base iso with tazdev.
https://people.slitaz.org/~shann/slitaz-4.0-stuff/slitaz-4.0-basedev-20220502.iso
[c]tux@slitaz:~$ tazpkg -l
List of all installed packages
================================================================================
acl 2.2.53 system-tools
busybox 1.23.2 base-system
depmod 3.12 base-system
dialog 1.1-20110707 base-system
dropbear 2022.82 security
e2fsprogs 1.44.3 base-system
gcc-lib-base 4.9.2 development
gettext-base 0.19.8.1 base-system
glibc-base 2.19 base-system
grub4dos-linux 0.4.4 system-tools
kbd-base 1.15.3 base-system
libcomerr 1.44.3 base-system
libtaz 1.6 base-system
linux 2.6.37 base-system
lzlib 4.57 base-system
lzma 4.57 base-system
ncurses 5.9 base-system
ncurses-common 5.9 base-system
ncursesw 5.9 base-system
popt 1.16 system-tools
rsync 3.1.3 network
slitaz-base-files 4.6 base-system
slitaz-boot-scripts 4.7.2 base-system
slitaz-configs-base 4.9.2 base-system
slitaz-tools 4.9.1 system-tools
tazdev 1.6 development
tazpkg 4.9.2 base-system
util-linux-ng-blkid 2.19.1 base-system
util-linux-ng-uuid 2.19.1 base-system
zlib 1.2.6 base-system
================================================================================
30 packages installed.[/c]
Boot live ok, install also.
i just need to fix issue with tazinst require /run folder for store pid but not exist 
.
Continue of work to bump packages and deal with requirements versions.
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Hi,
I bump toolchain to :
binutils 2.23.1 > 2.27
glibc 2.19
gcc 4.9.2 > 6.3.0
mpfr 3.1.2
mpc-library 1.0.2 > 1.0.3
gmp 6.0.0 > 6.1.2
elfkickers 3.1
elfutils 0.153
Also
readline 6.2 > 7.0
ncurses 5.9 > 6.3
m4 1.4.17 > 1.4.18
bash 4.2.53 > 5.1.16
bison 2.5 > 2.6.5
bzip2/bzlib 1.0.6 > 1.0.8
i need finish to rebuild packages and generate new base iso to test.
Below my local cooker 
[attachment=50669,3210]
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Hi,
Finish rebuild my cooklist.
I bump few packages :
bison 2.5 > 3.0.4
curl 7.23.1 > 7.61.0
git 1.7.9.1 > 2.18.0
openssl and deps 1.0.0g > 1.1.1n
libffi 3.0.10 > 3.1
pcre 8.20 > 8.44
tar 1.26 > 1.30
util-linux 2.19.1 > 2.24
wget 1.13.4 > 1.20.3 (with ssl support)
After work, i prepare iso to test stuff and put them on my space.
[attachment=50670,3211]
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Great, let's wait for the latest iso. The slitaz-4.0-basedev-20220502.iso version maintains good backward compatibility with graphics.
[attachment=50671,3213]
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Hi Gibor,
Great, nice to see that .
Unfortunally with last bump batch, i break openbox (libffi.5 require, i provide libffi.7).
with symlink of libffi openbox seem happy, but i need to see if break another.
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Hi,
After two symlinks seem running.
libffi.5 to libffi.7 for openbox
libncurses.5 to libncurses.6 for sakura
I disable auto_install deps and install"justx" stack with check packages to avoid downgrade.
(python, glib, ssl, libxml2, ncurses, python)
[attachment=50673,3214]
i put iso with workaround for ncurses, (libffi not include in base)
https://people.slitaz.org/~shann/slitaz-4.0-stuff/slitaz-4.0-basedev-20220503.iso
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https://people.slitaz.org/~shann/slitaz-4.0-stuff/current/packages
https://people.slitaz.org/~shann/slitaz-4.0-stuff/current/wok
Keep in mind that packages can be override/downgrade by official repo.
It's only for test at time, if you used it, prefer virtual machine, or livecd.
Keep safe your system.
I don't put kernel 3.16.55, but i test it (system boot on, work as well).
Two packages i don't build and fetch in state, linux (both 2.6.37, 3.16.55) and grub4dos.
linux 2.6.37 and grub4dos don't compile with GCC 6 (too recent)
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Hi,
i synchronize locally 4.0 repo,put my updated packages, remove old to avoid mismatch.
After cook pkgdb and switch to local repo, install slitaz-configs, xorg stack, openbox, midori to have "justx" flavors.
My previous message about test not to afraid, normally new base backward compat with 4.0 .
But can be break, example with libffi / ncurses lib requirement (workaround in place and fix it).
[attachment=50675,3215]
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Hi, doing graphics testing I think is premature. I think it's better to finish updating gcc and glibc.
In this regard I would like to say a few words about the method to update the old 4.0: once you have done the first jump of gcc, you have to go to the final version you think to use (in my tests I stopped at 10.2.0). Then you can recompile all the others, taking care not to fall into the trap of some sources that completely change dependencies, generating a snowball effect on the entire distribution (e.g. pcmanfm lxpanel and various gnome packages).
For those, working a bit on them with patches, you can keep them unchanged, while working with recent libraries. I've spent a lot of time on those patches and if needed (and you agree) I can also try to provide them directly.
At least this has been my method to get a 64bit (real) LFS 10 version of slitaz. Otherwise, due to dependency bindings, following the needs of the sources generates more or less similar operating systems as it happens in many other distributions.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ciao, fare testing sulla grafica credo sia prematuro. Credo sia meglio terminare l'aggiornamento di gcc e glibc.
Al proposito vorrei dire due parole sul metodo per aggiornare la vecchia 4.0: una volta fatto il primo salto di gcc, occorre portarsi alla versione finale che si ritiene utilizzare (nelle mie prove mi sono fermato alla 10.2.0). Poi da li si ricompila tutti gli altri avendo cura di non cadere nel tranello di alcuni sorgenti che virano completamente le dipendenze, generando un effetto valanga sull'intera distribuzione (es. pcmanfm lxpanel e sopratutto vari pacchetti ricavati di gnome).
Per quelli, lavorando un po' su con delle patch, si riescono a mantenere inalterati, pur lavorando con librerie recenti. Su quelle patch ci ho speso molto tempo e se occorre (e siete d'accordo) posso anche provare a fornirle direttamente.
Almeno questo è stato il mio metodo per avere una versione LFS 10 di slitaz a 64bit (reali). Altrimenti, causa legami con le dipendenze, seguendo le necessità dei sorgenti si generano più o meno dei sistemi operativi del tutto simili fra loro come accade in tante altre distribuzioni.
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Hi,
New day 
.
I define target toolchain :
- binutils 2.36.1
- gcc 10.2.0 (mpfr 4.1.0, mpc 1.2.1, gmp 6.2.1)
- glibc 2.19 (patch configure version to work mpfr 4.x and gcc > 9)
- elfutils 0.183
- elkfkickers 3.1
- make 4.3
- gc 8.0.4 required by gcc 10 [added]
bump few and add 2 packages
- check 0.14.0 required by kbd [added]
- tzdata for locale [added]
- patch cdrkit for gcc 10
- bump kbd, libtirpc, perl (respectively 2.1.0, 1.3.2, 5.32.1) for gcc 10 compliance (multiple definition of function)
Last step to switch on glibc 2.34, keep 2.19 at moment.
[attachment=50679,3217] [attachment=50679,3218]
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Hi,
I put new iso build after test upgrade packages with mass rebuild yesterday of cooklist (base + toolchain) and update current folder (both packages/wok) :
https://people.slitaz.org/~shann/slitaz-4.0-stuff/slitaz-4.0-basedev-20220506.iso
https://people.slitaz.org/~shann/slitaz-4.0-stuff/current
new change bump kbd to 2.2.0 (issue with 2.1.0 [loadkeys scandir: No such file or directory])
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Hi,
Begin stuff to rebuild final toolchain (follow LFS 10.1 for versions) :
- binutils 2.36.1
- gcc 10.2.0 (mpfr 4.1.0, mpc 1.2.1, gmp 6.2.1)
- glibc 2.32
- elfutils 0.183
- elkfkickers 3.1
- make 4.3
I use kernel 3.16.55, target is to have lts kernel (4.x or 5.x), try to keep also 3.x version for old hardware requirement.
first stage in progress, build temporary toolchain not depend of host.
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Hi,
To ensure sanity of base / toolchain, i follow arch toolchain upgrade process.
Due of rolling-release, toolchain rebuild each time of binutils / gcc / glibc new version.
I already upgrade 2.13 > 2.19 (backward compat 100%), few fix/patch needed.
bump to 2.20 and 2.21 sucessfull, remain 12 versions of glibc i continue and each time i check that base cli / toolchain work.
After glibc 2.33, final toolchain it's ready, i go to next milestone "justx".
I have new cooker "grell"
undertaker > toolchain with glibc 2.19 and kernel 2.6.37
grell > toolchain with glibc (2.21 at time) and kernel 3.16.55
[attachment=50689,3219] [attachment=50689,3220]
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Hi,
I continue rebuild toolchain and mass rebuild of base with glibc version.
I issue with glibc 2.24, failed when call /usr/bin/install, busybox complain usage.
After check glibc 2.25 can be backward compat of 2.23, build this, update and rebuild toolchain again.
Also notice 2 failed, openssl / perl, due usage of kernel64.
For openssl, it's about 64-bit mode missing > fix with define 32bit target at configure step
For perl, not really failed, just perl library use x86_64-linux name (/usr/lib/perl5/5.32.1/x86_64-linux) instead i686 > fix by define archname as i686-linux
I step on mass rebuild with glibc 2.25 (remain 8 versions )
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Hi,
continue upgrade glibc :
- 2.26 ok
- 2.27 issue about libc_pic.os, seem race condition with gcc, i skip them and switch to glibc 2.28 successfull (backward compat 2.10-2.18 and 2.22-2.28).
busybox bump to 1.31.1
at this step, i sync versions of base packages to follow LFS 10.1, mass rebuild in progress.
- util-linux 2.36.1
- gawk 5.1.0
- readline 8.1
- less 563
- kmod 28
- tar 1.34
- glib 2.46.2 (not introduce ninja / meson for moment, glib 2.66 required them)
(...)
when this mass rebuild done and tests pass, i go to create new iso.
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This is exciting news. I'm looking forward to trying your new iso.
I bet with all this new stuff, flatpak support may be possible.... but even if not, still awesome, can run current firefox and various appimages!
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