SliTaz Forum
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I would love to see Slitaz moving toward to wayland display server instead xorg.
Is this possible ?
Here is the first distro who do this
http://sourceforge.net/projects/rebeccablackos/
Regards,
Tibi
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I think, nope.
The main reason it's buggy, useless and broken by design.
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For those who do not know what is X and why need to be replaced, a very good Kristian Høgsberg presentation at FOSDEM 2012
http://mirror.be.gbxs.net/video.fosdem.org//2012/maintracks/k.1.105/Wayland.webm
Wayland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_%28display_server_protocol%29
What is wayland http://linuxplumbersconf.org/ocw/proposals/57
Here is wayland architecture. IMHO a huge step forward for Linux desktop.
http://wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html
Wayland have reached stable release 1.0 few days ago http://wayland.freedesktop.org/releases.html
Some Kristian Høgsberg presentations, explaining why wayland is needed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8zwnqKysfI
Regards,
Tibi
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I also personally consider that the first Linux distro who will adopt Wayland will gain a huge audience. ;-)
Regards,
Tibi
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No it won't. I'll point out the main points to why:
1. It still uses the xorg drivers.
2. It only supports Nvidia, Intel and ATI cards. The rest of us will be out of luck.
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>I also personally consider that the first Linux distro who will adopt Wayland will gain a huge audience. ;-)
Yeah. We always love the lack of drivers, instability and NIH syndrome.
Personally, I hate Wayland architecture. The main reason is using GLES2/EGL. I didn't want to explain why it's BAD.
The second - Wayland just reimplements Xorg with NO performance increases. All the stuff developers name revolutionary is just a copy of what already been on Linux desktop (directFB, DRI, Xorg).
And the latest - Wayland is monolitic. It's not KISS, nor Unixway. Just a bloated creation of someone's evil mind.
Putting a compositor and some other stuff inside graphic server (hell, why not just put it into kernel and deal with it) will not ever save us from some non-existant performance issues.
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I´m sure that both points you above mention will change in time.
However, main video card players are Nvidia, Intel and ATI. It make sense to start with them.
Regards,
Tibi
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> (hell, why not just put it into kernel and deal with it)
Only here I fully agree with you.
Regards,
Tibi
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Only intel supports wayland (cause the dont have binary drivers).
Nvidia and ATi (AMD now) already told they dont want support wayland.
>Only here I fully agree with you.
facepalm.svg.xz 12.1TB
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https://live.gnome.org/Wayland
Regards,
Tibi
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See the difference ?
Weston on Raspberry Pi
http://www.collabora.com/videos/rpi-wayland-demo-360p.mp4
Original page http://fooishbar.org/tell-me-about/wayland-on-raspberry-pi/
http://www.collabora.com/services/case-studies/raspberrypi
Regards,
Tibi
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Tibi, wayland is already dead. No one from major GNU/Linux distros supports it.
Ubuntu had switched to implementing Mir server.
>See the difference ?
The only difference I see, is that they have misconfigured Xorg and the lack of 2D acceleration in broadcom videocore driver.
I can run wayland using nouveau driver on my PC and then Xorg, using nvidia binary blob.
And trust me, waylang gonna lag like hell in comparison to X.
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devl547,
I don't try to demonstrate anything. 
Will see next year.
Regards,
Tibi
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The "already dead" wayland is already used in Sailfish
https://sailfishos.org/about-technology.html
and was ported to Android by Jolla (ex-Nokia Linux team)
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/04/11/2147208/jolla-ports-wayland-to-android-gpu-drivers
Quite some interest for an "already dead" display server protocol.
Regards,
Tibi
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Yeah yeah and GTK3 and Qt5 already has support for it while KDE is planning to support it fully while dropping Xorg. Kubuntu is also planning on going with Wayland instead of Mir. Hell, Mir is based on EGL like Wayland with XMir even containing code from XWayland.
But considering how both are resources hogs that depends on GL support, please explain to me how this will help users with older hardware and why this is the best move for a distro like SliTaz that caters for lower resource systems?
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You need to define which old hardware to support. There must be a limit, otherwise Slitaz will become another dead distro, as many others.
For me the reason behind installing Slitaz on an old hardare, was to be able to run new and modern applications on that hardware. Otherwise Windows98 or XP can still be used without any problem.
IMHO, Slitaz must follow new technologies and instead old hardware to focus on ARM and MIPS. This is the way where the technology is moving. A 25$ RaspberryPI will be more tempting than any old hardware.
Wayland is the missing part of Linux. Is adding coherence and unity in a fragmented X world. X was the part who blocked main developers to build native Linux applications. In fact you can number on one hand native X applications.
So, IMHO, Slitaz must go to support ARM, MIPS and slowly integrate Wayland protocol.
Regards,
Tibi
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So just computers with new 3D cards and laptops (most netbooks are excluded) that isn't reliant on evdev (like most intel based laptops) should be supported and to hell with everybody else, right?
I'm pretty sure if we followed that mentality SliTaz would end up dead faster than if we never support Wayland. In fact with the bigger distros forcing the use of Wayland or Mir there will probably be an insurgence of new users that got left behind by the switch. Hence not switching is probably the best choice we can make.
Thanks for helping us not make the biggest mistake ever
FYI, suggesting the use of Windows 98 or XP for older hardware is really stupid. Linux should cater for all kinds of users, not just the assholes that can afford the latest technologies.
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Well Trixar_za, this negative mode of thinking is not constructive.
However, I'm glad, I helped you to take a decision.
Regards,
Tibi
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The Real Story Behind Wayland and X - Daniel Stone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44
jump over the introduction to min 7:30
Regards,
Tibi
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And time demonstrated I was right. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtXQJ0c5q0k
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> time demonstrated I was right.
Time demonstrated people love nontrivial solutions.
Mali does not have dedicated 2D accelerator - that's why thay had to use wayland or glamor.
But Glamor uses Xorg, that's not so kewl, modern and highscalabitity-highavailability-enterprize-production-platform-need-moar-buzzwordz as Wayland.
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While my views on Wayland has changed, I don't think time has proven it's viability beyond the fact that Wayland has very few practical applications except for a handful of devices.
In the FLOSS world it's what makes you unique and different that makes you great. Trying follow the fads to appease a few people will just result in loss of users and the distro just being dubbed 'a cheap clone'. Ultimately that's how FLOSS projects die.
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> But Glamor uses Xorg, that's not so kewl, modern and highscalabitity-highavailability-enterprize-production-platform-need-moar-buzzwordz as Wayland.
That's why only few are seeing big picture and have vision capability.
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Even Ubuntu is starting to rethink the use of MIR - which should tell you something.
Wayland isn't the first 'Xorg replacement' and it probably won't be the last. Every single time Xorg - as crappy as it may be - came out on top. By the looks of it, history is repeating itself once again. That's the big picture - and the one you're missing.
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Hi, Trixar_za, please, I want you help me to configure my connection (modem 3g ZTE), step by step, i have already read lot things on the forums but i don't understand how to configure my slitaz with sakis3g.
Here is my topic:
http://forum.slitaz.org/topic/configuration-non-persistante
PS: sorry for my poor english
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